Official 2015 Draft Discussion

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  • Fleet
    TPB Founder
    • Jun 2013
    • 14157
    • Cardiff - Poipu
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    #793
    Just going over the games of Preston Smith. Really like this guy as a JJ type replacement. 3rd round prospect. Lines up at a few different spots including NT in 3 man fronts. 43 DE. Could be a disruptive 5T. Maybe a pass rush 3T. Good run defender. And for his size to see him being disruptive against doubles from the NT(34) spot intrigues me. Probably be one of those guys at the combine that puts up 225 numbers that dont really show truly how strong he is based on the fact that his arms are so long. Its those long arms that he really uses well to get through big OL.

    Like this kid. And when you watch film of ILB McKinney you can see how important Smith is to his success.

    As far as RB goes....yes i agree that you can find good RBs in the 2nd/3rd/4th etc. Most recent RBs have not come close to the talent i feel Gordon is and will be in the pros. Ive watched a ton of film over the years of RBs and when i watch Gordon i start getting that feeling i got when watching LT and Peterson run. Just that feeling of being cant miss prospects.

    So while i know you can get lucky sometimes in the mid rounds....i simply think Gordon is one of the most elite RBs to come out over the last 20 years. And i put him on the same level as LT and Peterson when they came into the league.

    Watch the film on Gordon. He gets outside just fine. And his OL isnt routinely making wide open lanes for him to run through. He made that OL look a lot better than it is.

    LT was always one of those guys that would go 1...2....2....4....6....1....30...2...4....25...3. ..2....50....and be over 100 yards relatively quickly. It forced teams to stack the box. Rivers was dominant when he wasnt the focal point of the offense.

    I think Gordon is the type of player that can carry this team. I cant say that about any other RB in this draft other than maybe Gurley. For me the goal is to get back to the times when Rivers was in the chariot and LT was the horse. Targets were easy to hit for Rivers when LT commanded so much attention. Its not just a good RB im looking for. Its a player that will force teams to completely immerse themselves into defending. That rare talent that can help Rivers take a backseat roll and pick teams apart.

    Stout D to keep the opponents score manageable....a RB that scores a TD and puts up 100 yards every week etc. Rivers just sits back and surgically dissects teams. Take up gobs of game clock. I miss those days.

    Comment

    • Stinky Wizzleteats+
      Grammar Police
      • Jun 2013
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      #794
      If we are serious about controlling the TOP, with long drives we need a solid RB on 1st and 2 and down or a super reviewing threat like Woodhead on 3rd down. We simple have to have one or the other.
      Go Rivers!

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      • bonehead
        Undrafted
        • Jul 2013
        • 5209
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        #795
        Originally posted by Formula Two One View Post
        Tom Brady was a 6th or 7th. Why waste a high pick on a qb either?

        Legions of top players were taken in the 2nd thru 4th. Why use a 1st on anybody?
        Because a sixth round top flight NFL QB is an outlier.....look at the starting QBs : Rivers,Manning , Rodgers, stafford etc.. Most are first rounders.....RB's not so much, there is a documented history with both groups
        Forget it Donny you're out of your element

        Shut the fuck up Donny

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        • Formula 21
          Why not us?
          • Jun 2013
          • 18775
          • Republic of San Diego
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          #796
          50% of first round qbs are busts too. And another large group of them are just guys. Does that say don't take qb risk in the 1st. O linemen in the 1st are a safe pick, but some of them bust too. Same with every position.

          I think you take talent where you find it. If you have an all pro type of guy there for the taking, you take him. Especially at a position of need. And if I let Matherws go to use his money on a RT, RB becomes a big position of need. Too big a need to trust to a later round pick. If we keep Mathews, then taking a late round flyer makes sense.
          Last edited by Formula 21; 02-16-2015, 02:08 PM.
          Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
          Let’s win one for Mack.

          Comment

          • Formula 21
            Why not us?
            • Jun 2013
            • 18775
            • Republic of San Diego
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            #797
            Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
            Let’s win one for Mack.

            Comment

            • bonehead
              Undrafted
              • Jul 2013
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              #798
              Originally posted by Formula Two One View Post
              50% of first round qbs are busts too. And another large group of them are just guys. Does that say don't take qb risk in the 1st. O linemen in the 1st are a safe pick, but some of them bust too. Same with every position.

              I think you take talent where you find it. If you have an all pro type of guy there for the taking, you take him. Especially at a position of need. And if I let Matherws go to use his money on a RT, RB becomes a big position of need. Too big a need to trust to a later round pick. If we keep Mathews, then taking a late round flyer makes sense.
              No...I say you should always look to the first round for your QB....despite the odds....the position is just too important
              Forget it Donny you're out of your element

              Shut the fuck up Donny

              Comment

              • Formula 21
                Why not us?
                • Jun 2013
                • 18775
                • Republic of San Diego
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                #799
                How about 2011 drafted backs?

                I don't recognize a lot of these names either.

                Mark Ingram RB Alabama 1 28(28) New Orleans
                Ryan Williams RB Virginia Tech 2 6(38) Arizona
                Shane Vereen RB California 2 24(56) New England
                Mikel Leshoure RB Illinois 2 25(57) Detroit
                Daniel Thomas RB Kansas State 2 30(62) Miami
                Demarco Murray RB Oklahoma 3 7(71) Dallas
                Stevan Ridley RB LSU 3 9(73) New England
                Alexander Green RB Hawaii 3 32(96) Green Bay
                Roy Helu RB Nebraska 4 8(105) Washington
                Kendall Hunter RB Oklahoma State 4 18(115) San Francisco
                Delone Carter RB Syracuse 4 22(119) Indianapolis
                Owen Marecic FB Stanford 4 27(124) Cleveland
                Taiwan Jones RB Eastern Washington 4 28(125) Oakland
                Bilal Powell RB Louisville 4 29(126) NY Jets
                Jamie Harper RB Clemson 4 33(130) Tennessee
                Johnny White RB North Carolina 5 2(133) Buffalo
                Anthony Sherman FB Connecticut 5 5(136) Arizona
                Jacquizz Rodgers RB Oregon State 5 14(145) Atlanta
                Dion Lewis RB Pittsburgh 5 18(149) Philadelphia
                Charles Clay FB Tulsa 6 9(174) Miami
                Evan Royster RB Penn State 6 12(177) Washington
                Jordan Todman RB Connecticut 6 18(183) San Diego
                Allen Bradford RB USC 6 22(187) Tampa Bay
                Shaun Chapas FB Georgia 7 17(220) Dallas
                Da'Rel Scott RB Maryland 7 18(221) NY Giants
                Shane Bannon RB Yale 7 20(223) Kansas City
                Anthony Allen RB Georgia Tech 7 22(225) Baltimore
                Baron Batch RB Texas Tech 7 29(232) Pittsburgh
                Stanley Havili FB USC 7 37(240) Philadelphia
                Jay Finley RB Baylor 7 43(246) Cincinnati
                Now, if you excuse me, I have some Charger memories to suppress.
                Let’s win one for Mack.

                Comment

                • bonehead
                  Undrafted
                  • Jul 2013
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                  #800
                  Well the three first rounders didn't
                  Forget it Donny you're out of your element

                  Shut the fuck up Donny

                  Comment

                  • Steve
                    Administrator
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 7472
                    • South Carolina
                    • Meteorologist
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                    #801
                    Originally posted by Fleet View Post
                    Just going over the games of Preston Smith. Really like this guy as a JJ type replacement. 3rd round prospect. Lines up at a few different spots including NT in 3 man fronts. 43 DE. Could be a disruptive 5T. Maybe a pass rush 3T. Good run defender. And for his size to see him being disruptive against doubles from the NT(34) spot intrigues me. Probably be one of those guys at the combine that puts up 225 numbers that dont really show truly how strong he is based on the fact that his arms are so long. Its those long arms that he really uses well to get through big OL.

                    Like this kid. And when you watch film of ILB McKinney you can see how important Smith is to his success.

                    As far as RB goes....yes i agree that you can find good RBs in the 2nd/3rd/4th etc. Most recent RBs have not come close to the talent i feel Gordon is and will be in the pros. Ive watched a ton of film over the years of RBs and when i watch Gordon i start getting that feeling i got when watching LT and Peterson run. Just that feeling of being cant miss prospects.

                    So while i know you can get lucky sometimes in the mid rounds....i simply think Gordon is one of the most elite RBs to come out over the last 20 years. And i put him on the same level as LT and Peterson when they came into the league.

                    Watch the film on Gordon. He gets outside just fine. And his OL isnt routinely making wide open lanes for him to run through. He made that OL look a lot better than it is.

                    LT was always one of those guys that would go 1...2....2....4....6....1....30...2...4....25...3. ..2....50....and be over 100 yards relatively quickly. It forced teams to stack the box. Rivers was dominant when he wasnt the focal point of the offense.

                    I think Gordon is the type of player that can carry this team. I cant say that about any other RB in this draft other than maybe Gurley. For me the goal is to get back to the times when Rivers was in the chariot and LT was the horse. Targets were easy to hit for Rivers when LT commanded so much attention. Its not just a good RB im looking for. Its a player that will force teams to completely immerse themselves into defending. That rare talent that can help Rivers take a backseat roll and pick teams apart.

                    Stout D to keep the opponents score manageable....a RB that scores a TD and puts up 100 yards every week etc. Rivers just sits back and surgically dissects teams. Take up gobs of game clock. I miss those days.
                    I'm not saying that Gordon can't get outside, but he can't do it by speed alone, just outrunning the D to the corner. He can get outside, if he gets a block. Like a lot of top backs, he does a nice job of setting up his blockers to get to the corner. But a player like Mathews who can threaten the whole field spreads out the D much better. Gordon sets his OL up for success from the inside out. He gets into small holes and gets upfeild quickly so the OL doesn't have to sustain their blocks long. But he doesn't have the speed to run past the defenses angles to the corner and force them to line up wide.

                    But as I will say about a hundred times before draft day, pure long speed is somewhat overrated. Gordon breaks his long runs because he accelerates well. He gets past defenders who then have to turn and run with him. Great RB break long runs because they get into the open field quickly. Those big chunks of field position (it is the field position, not the TD themselves) that really makes the running game special.

                    Any RB who has a high YPC is doing it by breaking long runs. Most runs are about 3 to 4 yards, no matter who is running the ball. That is part of why so many RB from the middle and late rounds can be successful. The difference between an elite guy and a average guy is so minimal, because that special quality in the RB only shows up maybe once per game. Guys like LT or Jamal Charles break a ton of long runs, but that is what makes them successful. I do think Gordon is an elite prospect, just that his qualities are not so great that it makes as huge difference as it would between an elite pass rusher or an elite OT and the next caliber of players. The difference at those other positions are a lot greater. BUt if you can't get one of those elite guys, then you have to settle for the smaller, incremental improvements, and that is where we are at. If we can get an elite player at any position, we should do it. And Gordon may only be that only elite player who lasts very long.

                    Comment

                    • Fleet
                      TPB Founder
                      • Jun 2013
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                      #802
                      I guess it depends on who you consider elite at those other positions. Guys i would take that have a chance of being there would be Beasley, Collins, Scherff. Ray obviously but he wont be there. Possibly Fowler i just dont see the hype on him. Hes a good player but he dosnt pop off the tape to me. And the difference between Gordon and Gurley compared to every other RB is a fair amount imo. I love Duke Johnson but if you can get an elite RB like Gordon who will end up being a 3 down franchise back its good value imo. Duke as well as the rest need work or will be 2 down backs. Not sure i want to use a 2nd on a 2 down guy when there will be stud OL and pass rushers available. I see those positions being very deep with a ton of top end talent. While the elite guys should be gone by our pick in the first. I see the 2 elite RBs and think they will be there. Its just a smart pick imo.

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                      • Faded blues
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 806
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                        #803
                        This is a strong draft for rbs so we can wait.

                        The rb position has been compared to the wr class of last year.

                        Draft oline and dline

                        God I sound like yuba somebody hand me a shotgun.

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                        • Stinky Wizzleteats+
                          Grammar Police
                          • Jun 2013
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                          #804
                          If the top end of RBs in this draft could be HOF quality you draft one of them at 17. ESPECIALY now as Rivers wanes...
                          Go Rivers!

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