Keenan Allen

[sandiego17]

who's been more invisible: Allen, Ladarius Green, Donald Butler, Addae or Richard Marshall?

Couple of those guys don't belong on the list, unless the concern is simply fantasy football.

[sandiego17]

This is a fair point and one I considered before starting this thread. However, Woodhead and Green were pretty bog components of the offense last year while Allen was having his greatest success and those guys haven't been part of things this year. Yes Floyd is back, so I see that. But Allen's YPC are down, too. At the end of the day he's our #1 receiver. Megatron is the #1 focus of Detroit's passing offense. Just because Golden Tate, Bush, etc catche some balls doesn't mean CJ isn't the point of emphasis.

Megatron is ridiculous and fun to watch, to bad he's been hurt. Allen is the Bolts #1, but Rivers has always shown he doesn't care about that. That being said, he still leads the team in both receptions and targets and Rivers has gone for 15 TD's, 2 Int's so the passing game is working. I'm happy that the offensive guys aren't selfish. Malcolm Floyd has been huge, but in the Seattle game, no catches, no targets. Gates was targeted only once in Buffalo, Royal 1 catch vs. Arizona (targeted 6 times though).

Again, my opinion on Allen hasn't changed, stud and he's still on pace for 75 catches or so, a far cry from invisible. Agree that we want all want to see more yards and I do think that will happen.

[Steve]

This is a fair point and one I considered before starting this thread. However, Woodhead and Green were pretty bog components of the offense last year while Allen was having his greatest success and those guys haven't been part of things this year. Yes Floyd is back, so I see that. But Allen's YPC are down, too. At the end of the day he's our #1 receiver. Megatron is the #1 focus of Detroit's passing offense. Just because Golden Tate, Bush, etc catche some balls doesn't mean CJ isn't the point of emphasis.

That is a difference in philosphy. Det has decided that they have the 1 really great guy, so they designed the O around him, but Det also doesn't have that complete receiver corp, so they kinda have to go that route. Plus, I think Stafford needs that. He is more the kind of player to make the huge throw into double coverage then he is the guy who automatically knows what receiver is going to be open when he is at the line. But they don't have as good a corp overall as we do, so to some extent they have to do that.

We don't have single guy like Megatron, so we aren't going to try and do that. We have 5 or 6 guys who can all do damage if you don't give them enough attention. So, we don't need to try and manufacturer receptions for our best guy, our other receivers are going to be there if they take away our biggest threats. We just play our offense and let Rivers find the matchups. The other way to go after our D is to mix up who they are going to double on any given down. Fine, go ahead, right now I will take Rivers over any DC in football.

The big thing I like, is an offense like ours can always start to do more scheming and try to manufacture ways of getting a WR open. There are route combinations, actions and so on that can work guys open, the kind of stuff Det does. We can always start doing that, but right now we really don't need to. We keep beating people just using our regular offense. But if some team finds a way to stop Megatron, Det is dead. Their whole offense is going to struggle. WE can just start to dial up new tactics, because we haven't shown everyone.

The best option is still to put pressure on Rivers with 4 guys rushing and 7 in coverage. It hasn't worked that well, but it works a hell of a lot better then when teams blitz, because when our guys are just single covered, no one has had any luck since AZ, and it is not for lack of trying.

I guess the big thing is why is this an issue? who cares who is catching what right now. Allen is on pace to catch as many passes as he did last year. His YPC is lower, but that is just teams covering him a lot closer. We are getting 1st downs, we are moving the ball, and scoring TD. That is what an offense is about. There are only so many passes to be had, and if other guys are getting them, we are fine.

The one thing I think Allen does really need to improve on is something he struggled with last year too. When he runs crossing routes, he struggles to find the soft spots against zones. When you play man coverage, the key is to make sharp cuts and run away from the defenders to create separation. And Allen is good at that, which is part of why we don't see as much man as we did. But against zone, if you take too sharp a cut and run too far from the DB, you run right into another DB. When you run crossing routes vs zone, you need to find the softspots between the zones and stop. Allen keeps running right into the next DB, like he was facing man coverage. Gannon pointed the same thing out vs the Raiders. On a 3rd and medium, Allen got a short crossing route for the 1st down. But had he stopped, settle down in the zone, he could have stopped, caught the ball, then gotten up field for a bunch of YAC. Allen starts doing that, his YPC will go back up and the big plays underneath will come again. Last year, our lack of weapons meant we faced a lot of man coverage, and he shreaded that, even when he was double covered.

[Mister Hoarse]

Time to read this Steves

[KNSD]

Arizona rushed 5-6 and played man - which is probably how teams should play the Chargers. Chargers have adjusted and have been able to get receivers deep more than against Arizona.

Seattle sat back and rushed 4 and SD ate them alive.

[Steve]

And in that game, where we couldn't pick up those inside blitzes, that was a huge issue. But every game we have played, teams have run stunts and dogs right at our interior OL, and we have done a good (not great) job of picking them up and hurting those defenses. Let KC try. I don't think their DB are nearly as good as AZ were, so let them try and man to man our guys to death. Because if you blitz Rivers and don't get to him (and only AZ has), then he is going to destroy any D that tries. And with Ohrnberger back, I am feeling better and better about the interior OL.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Again, my opinion on Allen hasn't changed, stud and he's still on pace for 75 catches or so, a far cry from invisible. Agree that we want all want to see more yards and I do think that will happen.

My opinion of Allen hasn't changed either. I didn't proclaim him invisible. I just sparked a discussion about him and am asking a question about his role in the offense. That is all.

[sandiego17]

My opinion of Allen hasn't changed either. I didn't proclaim him invisible. I just sparked a discussion about him and am asking a question about his role in the offense. That is all.

It wasn't you, but in this thread there was a comparison of who has been more invisible and Allen was on the list. Fair topic, its great that Rivers has multiple options that are actually good.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

It wasn't you, but in this thread there was a comparison of who has been more invisible and Allen was on the list. Fair topic, its great that Rivers has multiple options that are actually good.

No worries, bub.

[SDFan]

It wasn't you, but in this thread there was a comparison of who has been more invisible and Allen was on the list. Fair topic, its great that Rivers has multiple options that are actually good.

I made a list like that. Reason being Allen had a monster year and Green was really talked up by McCoy- so I was expecting both to be heavily involved in the offense as focal points. So far Gates, Floyd and Royal have been the focal points and Allen & Green have not had any big games or higher visibility. On the defensive side, Butler has completely underwhelmed after getting the big contract and Addae hasn't picked up where he left off last year and nailed down the starting job. Marshall mention was because they made him a Safety in TC out of neccessity (and a way to justify keeping him on the 53 with Addae hurt early), but isn't really doing anything when he's in there- good or bad.

[Steve]

Butler has been getting better. At this point, I find it hard to believe ANY ILB can have much of an impact. We have gotten teams out of their run game. No LB is so good in coverage that they are going to make a ton of plays. At best, if they do their job, they cover a guy and the QB doesn't throw to their man. Butler has had some pretty good blitzes, but only 1 sack to show for it. He has freed up others, and several of Freeney's big plays were set up by the pressure Butler delivered up the middle. But if we had Bowman and Willis lined up at ILB, I don't think they would have had a real impact either. Just not enough tackles for the ILB to make to get people excited.

The big problem in my mind was early in the season, Butler was letting RB get outside of him and get big yards in the passing game. You can't stop those passes from being completed most of the time, but you can limit how much a team gets on them by being in position and having an angle, which Butler wasn't doing. But if you notice, that has stopped after a couple of games. And teams are getting some passing yards on the interior check downs, but again, not like they were the first few games.

This KC game is a good test for us. The front 7 need to do a good job of stopping the run early, so that we can get some points. This is the 2nd worse D we have faced, and their style doesn't matchup well against our offensive scheme. If we can get them out of their game, their passing game lacks the playmakers. That new TE of theirs is pretty good, but since no one knew who he was, how much of it is him catching people off guard. Avery and Bowe are both putting up OK numbers, but neither has been anything more then decent. A guy with Thomas' speed always deserves respect, but does he have any route running to go with that? We KNOW they can beat us on the ground if we let them. But can they keep pace in a scoring duel? We just can't let them stick around and allow their RB to stay in the game, but that is as much on the O (and ST), as it is the D.

[sandiego17]

So far Gates, Floyd and Royal have been the focal points and Allen & Green have not had any big games or higher visibility.

Disagree with including Allen on the 'invisible' list. Allen is still the most targeted receiver and leads the team in receptions, including a 10 catch game. IMO, it's more that their isn't a single focal point period. All the guys you mentioned have had stretches where they weren't involved much.