POLL: Which Defensive Players Need to be Cut, Traded, & Upgraded?

[ChargersPowderBlue]

It starts front to back. Telesco hammered out the OLine with the 5 players this past offseason; same thing needs to happen this offseason. If Tillery is IDL4, that might be an acceptable rotation for IDL.

Maybe if Staley learns and recognizes better on how to distribute the minutes to the D-linemen. BS doesn't put that much emphasis on DL in his defense. Another thing, the problem with the DL on this team is that there's players who are good only at one of the two things, run stopping or pass rushing, and not both.

[FarAwayBoltFan]

I voted cut Campbell and trade Murray. Maybe Murray can net us back the 2nd and 3rd used to draft him.

[Steve]

I'm not sure who on earth would trade a 2nd or 3rd for a player who has done as little as Murray, let alone both.

[FarAwayBoltFan]

I'm not sure who on earth would trade a 2nd or 3rd for a player who has done as little as Murray, let alone both.

He wasn't worth what we paid... which was the point of my comment. I was looking at need in that draft so had my eye on a RB in the 2nd and a DT in the 3rd. We still had Denzell and had drafted 2 LBs the previous year so that position wasn't even on my radar...

[chargeroo]

Murray has all the physical attributes you look for in a LB, so why is he such a disappointment? I'm thinking it must be mental. That gives me hope that the coaches can train him up to be a good LB. They should know by training camp next year if he can make it or not.

[Bolt4Knob]

Murray has all the physical attributes you look for in a LB, so why is he such a disappointment? I'm thinking it must be mental. That gives me hope that the coaches can train him up to be a good LB. They should know by training camp next year if he can make it or not.

I agree. I think they need to figure out his best position - put him in that position starting in the offseason through minicamps, OTAs and training camp and see if he improves.

I just do not think the trade value is to the point they could even get a late round pick at this point. So thats not worth it. Like you said Roo, he has the physical attributes. He looks the part of an NFL LB.

[Topcat]

I just do not think the trade value is to the point they could even get a late round pick at this point. So thats not worth it. Like you said Roo, he has the physical attributes. He looks the part of an NFL LB.

This Murray trade talk almost reminds me of some people who dangle the idea of trading Pip...almost...

[Steve]

Murray has all the physical attributes you look for in a LB, so why is he such a disappointment? I'm thinking it must be mental. That gives me hope that the coaches can train him up to be a good LB. They should know by training camp next year if he can make it or not.

Figuring out a player's best position is not as easy as it sounds. We have been watching him play for 2 years, so what is it... He has some of the best qualities that you look for in an ILB. He has some of the qualities you look for in an edge rusher. He is not quite ideal for either, IMHO. If anything, he best position was probably as a 43 Will, only we don't play that position anymore.

It may be that he doesn't fit any position in our D, or maybe worse yet is not suited to be an NFL player at all. Around 50% of NFL 1st round picks are busts as it is, and even more in every successive round. Drafting is good players is not easy.

He wasn't worth what we paid... which was the point of my comment. I was looking at need in that draft so had my eye on a RB in the 2nd and a DT in the 3rd. We still had Denzell and had drafted 2 LBs the previous year so that position wasn't even on my radar...

Perryman and Tranquill both are lacking in range in pass coverage, IMHO. They may have been on the roster, but neither was/were exactly what was needed. Especially with the season that White was coming off, you can easily make the argument that none of the 3 of them looked to have much of a future with the Chargers as anything more than a role player.

Even now, with Tranquill stepping up his game, I am still not sure he is good enough to be an every-down LB in the NFL, although he is showing that he has at least some of his moments. White is playing better too, but I am still not sure if he really is going to be a quality every-down player. Even after both of them have played the best football of their (short) careers, I am not sure I would say ILB isn't a need.

LB is a position that asks a lot of a players instincts. Plenty of guys with good functional, everyday intelligence have been terrible LB. And plenty of guys who are dumb as rocks have been great LB, because they have "football IQ". And the college game is not a very good indicator of how players will perform in the NFL. Some of it is scheme since most college teams play different schemes than the NFL, but the game is also much slower, so plenty of successful CFB ILB watching plays develop and running plays down and will be too slow to react to be successful in the NFL.

One way to be less dependant on LB in modern football is to use more and more DB. Either play guys like White at the LB position or sub them out quickly and play extra DB in their place. Nickel defenses started to be used in the 1960s and 1970s, and have been the predominant defense in the NFL since the late 1970's/1980-ish. Last year Staley played, but some accounts, 85% of the Rams snaps using 5 or more DB. The Chargers best success under Bradley was when we played mostly dime D (6 DB), with Adrian Phillips playing a second ILB spot next to a traditional MLB. In the last 2 seasons under Bradley, the lack of depth and the loss of quality DB coincided with the decline of our D.

Staley's D is fundamentally different than what we have run in the past, even though the personnel is roughly the same. We need to add more and better DB, and improve the team speed. That is somewhat drafting better guys who run better, but also drafting guys who can read and react to the game around them faster.

[chargeroo]

I hope he's not another Brian Bosworth, but I can't help but think he may be.

[gzubeck]

Figuring out a player's best position is not as easy as it sounds. We have been watching him play for 2 years, so what is it... He has some of the best qualities that you look for in an ILB. He has some of the qualities you look for in an edge rusher. He is not quite ideal for either, IMHO. If anything, he best position was probably as a 43 Will, only we don't play that position anymore.

It may be that he doesn't fit any position in our D, or maybe worse yet is not suited to be an NFL player at all. Around 50% of NFL 1st round picks are busts as it is, and even more in every successive round. Drafting is good players is not easy.



Perryman and Tranquill both are lacking in range in pass coverage, IMHO. They may have been on the roster, but neither was/were exactly what was needed. Especially with the season that White was coming off, you can easily make the argument that none of the 3 of them looked to have much of a future with the Chargers as anything more than a role player.

Even now, with Tranquill stepping up his game, I am still not sure he is good enough to be an every-down LB in the NFL, although he is showing that he has at least some of his moments. White is playing better too, but I am still not sure if he really is going to be a quality every-down player. Even after both of them have played the best football of their (short) careers, I am not sure I would say ILB isn't a need.

LB is a position that asks a lot of a players instincts. Plenty of guys with good functional, everyday intelligence have been terrible LB. And plenty of guys who are dumb as rocks have been great LB, because they have "football IQ". And the college game is not a very good indicator of how players will perform in the NFL. Some of it is scheme since most college teams play different schemes than the NFL, but the game is also much slower, so plenty of successful CFB ILB watching plays develop and running plays down and will be too slow to react to be successful in the NFL.

One way to be less dependant on LB in modern football is to use more and more DB. Either play guys like White at the LB position or sub them out quickly and play extra DB in their place. Nickel defenses started to be used in the 1960s and 1970s, and have been the predominant defense in the NFL since the late 1970's/1980-ish. Last year Staley played, but some accounts, 85% of the Rams snaps using 5 or more DB. The Chargers best success under Bradley was when we played mostly dime D (6 DB), with Adrian Phillips playing a second ILB spot next to a traditional MLB. In the last 2 seasons under Bradley, the lack of depth and the loss of quality DB coincided with the decline of our D.

Staley's D is fundamentally different than what we have run in the past, even though the personnel is roughly the same. We need to add more and better DB, and improve the team speed. That is somewhat drafting better guys who run better, but also drafting guys who can read and react to the game around them faster.

I think we got a taste of Staley's true defense when he has most of his starters back and not dumpster diving in the rubbish bin!

[Steve]

I think we got a taste of Staley's true defense when he has most of his starters back and not dumpster diving in the rubbish bin!

I think we will see some major changes. Physically, the D has the kind of players we need. Mentally, we are nowhere near as consistent as we need to be. The biggest thing that will help would just be get guys to stop trying to be on chunky soup cans. Stop trying to make the big play so hard, and just worry about doing your job play after play. I keep seeing the OLB and DL jump around on the front, leaving big gaps, and then the RB just runs through for huge gains. When they all play together, they aren't amazing, but they are a top 10 (ish) level of D. But that is just such a small percent of the time, I am not sure how many people outside of James, Bosa and a few others will be back.

Some will be back next season but should be on notice because if they continue to make the same mistakes, next year is going to be a repeat of this year.

And none of that even addresses trying to do a better job of matching up against KC better. We need more team speed and better, more disciplined pass rushers. And you aren't going to be able to go after players with the speed and skill to match up vs KC very easily. Look at the FA lists, because those players aren't there.

This may take a couple of years to exchange out the dunces to get some guys who can make the right reads and make the plays when they come to them.

[Hadl2Alworth]

I think we will see some major changes. Physically, the D has the kind of players we need. Mentally, we are nowhere near as consistent as we need to be. The biggest thing that will help would just be get guys to stop trying to be on chunky soup cans. Stop trying to make the big play so hard, and just worry about doing your job play after play. I keep seeing the OLB and DL jump around on the front, leaving big gaps, and then the RB just runs through for huge gains. When they all play together, they aren't amazing, but they are a top 10 (ish) level of D. But that is just such a small percent of the time, I am not sure how many people outside of James, Bosa and a few others will be back.

Some will be back next season but should be on notice because if they continue to make the same mistakes, next year is going to be a repeat of this year.

And none of that even addresses trying to do a better job of matching up against KC better. We need more team speed and better, more disciplined pass rushers. And you aren't going to be able to go after players with the speed and skill to match up vs KC very easily. Look at the FA lists, because those players aren't there.

This may take a couple of years to exchange out the dunces to get some guys who can make the right reads and make the plays when they come to them.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. The defense reclamation project will take at least a couple years unless the existing guys take a step up. Like if Tillery somehow can show vast improvement in the run game. Although that scenario might be asking for way too much. Then there's Murray.