Bobby Wagner to be released

[wu-dai clan]

That’s cute but if what we had last season was Modern Defesnive Football, no thanks. Gimme that old time, 85 bears defense any day

Pete said good bye to Wagner because the Seahawks are moving towards a modern, Staley style defense.

LAC are not going LOD or Buddy Ryan anytime soon.

Dave Wyman, former Seahawk/Bronco LB,
and current SEA broadcaster, talk show host,
says Wagner will be missed, but TBH Bobby's play has dropped off.

The not so pretty truth is that Wagner is closer to Thomas Davis than Mike Singletary.

wu is pure NexGen football.

:wtf:

[ChargersPowderBlue]

We need a guy who can be an every-down LB, or at least a combination of different guys who can be fill in the different roles of base D, nickel D, and dime. But in all those packages, you still need 1 LB who can do a bit of everything. No LB is going to dominate like LB used to dominate, except for the occasional game vs teams that love to run the ball. But even the best coverage LB in football is not as good as a decent DB in coverage, and cover is what they will do unless the run D is so bad it is more attractive to pass against. So, you can't overpay too much for a LB. It just won't pay off and it makes the whole team weaker by investing capital in a position that won't be utilized.

AJ Klein has only been a part-time starter. He is a backup for a reason. He gets exposed badly in pass coverage because he lacks speed and has no wiggle or change of direction. He gets turned and can't stay with any decent receiver at RB or TE. Still, he is a good role player in the base D or goalline.

Hicks was a very good, every-down LB in Philly. Not truly an every-down guy then, but close. He has not played that well in Az, but that is largely because they have forced him into being a 34 ILB and asked him to play too much. He never comes off the field for the Cards. He is better than anyone we have, but he is probably a guy you want to replace at some point. He has had some injuries but is basically healthy. He is just at his best as an OLB in a 43 than as a true 34 LB.

Bobby Wagner is the best ILB available. He is declining some, but he was the best ILB in football for years, and he is still miles ahead of any of our LB. He does everything reasonably well. Hasn't been injured, or at least never misses time because of it. I think he will go to Indy to play for Gus, but he would be the best bet if we want him as a vet. Lower risk than any UDFA out there, by a wide margin.

These are a few linebackers who can cover; Bobby Wagner, Fred Warner, Eric Kendricks, Devin White, Darius Leonard, Demario Davis.

Some linebackers once played as a DB. Kyzir White was one of those players.

[Lone Bolt]

Pete said good bye to Wagner because the Seahawks are moving towards a modern, Staley style defense.

LAC are not going LOD or Buddy Ryan anytime soon.

Dave Wyman, former Seahawk/Bronco LB,
and current SEA broadcaster, talk show host,
says Wagner will be missed, but TBH Bobby's play has dropped off.

The not so pretty truth is that Wagner is closer to Thomas Davis than Mike Singletary.

wu is pure NexGen football.

:wtf:

So we keep bringing in these young guys, who cant tell run from pass, or tackle worth a hoot? I vote for some "lead by example in that group"...and Wagner can play your MDF....

[Steve]

Kyzir White is not very good run defender. He is fine in zone coverage, but his man coverage is not very good and he is not a downhill type of player. He can run sideline to sideline and run guys down, but he has to be kept clean, and that takes a good DL.

Wagner's play is not what it once was, but he is still a good player. Better than any of our other LB. I get the fact that people in Seattle are justifying it as he is getting older .... but they will miss him when he is gone. There are VERY few guys who are even as good as a delining Wagner. And ultimately, it was the salary cap thing that drove his going, not so much his play on the field.

As far as a D, we aren't going to turn into the 85 Bears. No one is. One reason is it took years for them to find and develop the players they needed, and we just started. And players who have the skills to excel in blitzing and attacking D are coveted in all defenses, so keeping players in FA is tough. Any team that wants to play that style of D is going to be constantly rebuilding. And note the few teams that play that style are also playing very simple offenses, because they need to keep developing players fast too.

Two, we aren't even trying to be the Bears. The Bear Double Eagle overload blitz type of D worked great in the day. But a lot of how modern offenses attack blitzes comes from teams adjusting to the 46 D. Every team has better pass protection, hot reads, and simply spreading a D out makes it hard to defend modern offenses with blitzes.

Blitzing is down among NFL teams and goes down a bit every year. We aren't going to abondon a coverage style of D that uses a wide variety of coverages after 1 year. They hired Staley and they are going to try and make things work.

The biggest issue is whether we stick to playing mostly zone or start to go for personnel who allows us to go to more/mostly man coverage. If we are switching to more man coverage, then we need not only a CB, but another LB who can run and cover man to man to go with Murray. White is not a good man coverage guy. Tranquill has good technique and is adequate when he covers guys with average speed, but he gets exposed when asked to run with faster players. Our S can cover man. Davis is OK, but I think he is a guy we would want to upgrade at some point. Samuel can cover man to man too. But that means we would HAVE to get a man CB AND LB to go with them. We have had the elements to play mixes of man and zone, so that isn't going to add an element to a D. We already have it. IF they want to mix in more man coverage we need to upgrade across the board or we are stuck in zone D again.

[Bolt4Knob]

Gotta be strong thru the middle. We haven’t been for years. Wagner would change that

I am good with Wagner - but need to solidy IDL , Edge and CB as well.

For me, IDL ranks fourth on that list. And yes, the Chargers have not been good at LB - but IDL was also not good last year, CB play needs help and Edge- need more consistent pressure.

Plus, are you paying for prime years of Bobby Wagner or the future years of Bobby Wagner. Some team is going to pay him a "prime" contract. I would rather pay JCJackson or Ward or Davis - prime contract

EDIT _- I just read Jourdan Rodrique's story about the Rams from The Athletic and their free agents and this is what she wrote about Wagner - if the Chargers did the same $5m range plus incentives, I think that makes a lot of sense. An AAV of double figures - not sure

My understanding is that the Rams would absolutely be interested in bringing in inside linebacker Bobby Wagner, who was released by Seattle this week. They have to get finances settled with their current free agents first and specifically could not come anywhere close to the $16 million Wagner was scheduled to be owed by the Seahawks in 2022. The Rams’ number would be closer to $4 million to $5 million, likely with some incentives as well. Wagner, who is from Los Angeles and whom Snead regretfully missed drafting back in 2012, may not like the money — but may want to play in his hometown on a contending team, and get two shots a year at the franchise that cut him. The Rams historically do not invest financially in their inside linebacker position, and want to ensure the continued playing time and growth of third-round starter Ernest Jones, who (despite injury) had an excellent rookie season. They play one “every-down” linebacker in their current scheme, with a second linebacker in complement who often rotates in and out of subpackages. But if the Rams had a realistic chance to get Wagner on a low contract, they’d probably sign first and ask schematic questions later.

[Topcat]

Pete said good bye to Wagner because the Seahawks are moving towards a modern, Staley style defense.

LAC are not going LOD or Buddy Ryan anytime soon.

Dave Wyman, former Seahawk/Bronco LB,
and current SEA broadcaster, talk show host,
says Wagner will be missed, but TBH Bobby's play has dropped off.

The not so pretty truth is that Wagner is closer to Thomas Davis than Mike Singletary.

wu is pure NexGen football.

:wtf:

Ouch..."Old Man" Davis...was running on fumes...

[Bolt4Knob]

Ouch..."Old Man" Davis...was running on fumes...

Popper on the Live Chat yesterday said Telesco doesn't like to sign older players - unless for need
Well I guess he is right as Linval Joseph, Chris Harris and Jared Cook were for need
I still didn't get the Thomas Davis signing - had to be a younger LB for the same dollars

Hence, Telesco and Staley need to pay for the future, not the past - which is why I am leery of Gilmore and Hicks and Tyrann Mathieu - as their best football is behind them. Whereas a guy like SJDay or JC Jackson - they still probably can improve or at worst plateau and not decline

Foley Fatukasi is another one - DT -

[powderblueboy]

Popper on the Live Chat yesterday said Telesco doesn't like to sign older players - unless for need
Well I guess he is right as Linval Joseph, Chris Harris and Jared Cook were for need
I still didn't get the Thomas Davis signing - had to be a younger LB for the same dollars

Hence, Telesco and Staley need to pay for the future, not the past - which is why I am leery of Gilmore and Hicks and Tyrann Mathieu - as their best football is behind them. Whereas a guy like SJDay or JC Jackson - they still probably can improve or at worst plateau and not decline

Foley Fatukasi is another one - DT -

Beluga, Pouncey, Donald Brown, Ronnie Brown.....its not written in stone.

[equivocation]

Beluga, Pouncey, Donald Brown, Ronnie Brown.....its not written in stone.

Bulaga was 30 when he signed here. Not exactly old for OT standards.

[powderblueboy]

Bulaga was 30 when he signed here. Not exactly old for OT standards.

It wasn't a young 30: he had struggled against injuries seemingly his entire career in Green Bay.
If he hadn't his injury history, he would have costed substantially more money.

Okung also was in a similar boat: he struggled with staying healthy and then had a bad season at Denver protecting the erratic Sieman;
Telesco then got him on a discount, instead of competing for an older, consistently healthy but more expensive Andrew Whitworth.

Pouncey was still in his 20s, but his body/knees were old....everyone knew that.

Some formula involving age and injury history is required. Wagner is on the low end concerning the latter.

[Bolt4Knob]

It wasn't a young 30: he had struggled against injuries seemingly his entire career in Green Bay.
If he hadn't his injury history, he would have costed substantially more money.

Okung also was in a similar boat: he struggled with staying healthy and then had a bad season at Denver protecting the erratic Sieman;
Telesco then got him on a discount, instead of competing for an older, consistently healthy but more expensive Andrew Whitworth.

Pouncey was still in his 20s, but his body/knees were old....everyone knew that.

Some formula involving age and injury history is required. Wagner is on the low end concerning the latter.

Telesco has the money this year to pursue free agents that might cost a little bit more

[jamrock]

Take Edge off the draft board