Raiders @ Chargers Game Day Thread (Week 1) / Post Game Reaction

[AK47]

When you explain to casual sports fans that looking and talking tough

RAIDER_SUPER_FANS-OCT25-20-bh_011-web.jpg


don't win games.

[Velo]

Honest and humble breakdown by a Raiders fan of the sacks on Carr, pointing out Carr's shortcomings in the pocket and praising Herbert for how it should be done.

[Heatmiser]

Honest and humble breakdown by a Raiders fan of the sacks on Carr, pointing out Carr's shortcomings in the pocket and praising Herbert for how it should be done.

Thanks Velo. It was actually a pretty good break down. I did not realize on one of the sacks, Chargers only rushed three.

TG

[Guest]

What offensive talent - you continually talk about how mediocre most of the talent is. The only talent you seem excited about is Guyton and Tbilly. I’m still looking for their contributions in the box score today. I guess the inability to appreciate their extraordinary talents is not limited to just Charger coaches.

Your statement about my views is completely false.

I have stated that Herbert is the best player in the entire league and at the most important position. I was the biggest champion for the re-signing of Williams because he is elite when it comes to contested catches and clutch catches late in games. I have lauded Allen for his ability to gain quick, early separation. I have always spoken highly of Ekeler, but have expressed the desire to get an elite #2 RB, who could handle a slightly greater workload than the typical #2 RB because of Ekeler's lack of size and the pounding at the RB position. (BTW, that RB is still not on the roster.) I think our OL is very good, but like most of us, I have some concern about how our RT position will play out.

All in all though, I think we have the best offensive talent in the entire league.

My issues with the Telesco/Staley/Lombardi are that in drafting we have become a team that reaches versus consensus too regularly and the consensus is right far more often than the early outlier drafter. From day 1, I have noted that Palmer was a reach versus consensus (which is just a fact) and that he has zero elite traits. He is a "jack of all meh". Does he belong on an NFL roster? Yes. But he is a reserve that the coaching staff and many on this forum have hugely overvalued.

Did we reach with Woods in the same round this year as with Palmer the year before, same fashion, and with a similar two-round reach versus consensus? Yes, we did.

Will we end up paying in the long run for repeated reaches against consensus rankings? Yes, we will. It is just a bad draft strategy.

Returning to Palmer, I keep asking this question--how does Palmer win? Not one person on this forum has offered a meaningful response--because he has no known high end trait that he relies on to win. He is okay at some things, but bad at gaining separation because he is not super fast and his moves are significantly below average. He lacks Williams' size and contested catch ability, so the lack of separation matters a whole bunch more with him than it does with Williams, who some might fairly say is the kind of receiver that is "open" even when he is covered. But Palmer is not that guy and could never be that guy because his frame simply is not big enough even when maxed out with good weight.

Some have claimed that Palmer should be allowed time to develop, but those same standards are not/were not applied to Guyton and Johnson, both of whom do have an elite ability and one that complements the elite abilities of our top 2 WRs, Allen and Williams. And that kind of argument (time to develop) should be more applicable to Guyton and Johnson who have superior natural physical ability and less so to a player that was known for being a more precise route runner and being more fundamentally developed such as Palmer. That Palmer developed himself considerably before entering the NFL is a positive for Palmer, but it does suggest that there is less improvement (development) left for him than there may be for other receivers that first enter the league that may have elite traits, but that are more raw.

So yes, the team wasted draft capital when it reached for Palmer; wasted talent when it cut Johnson, who worked better with Herbert in just 12 games than either Palmer or K.J. Hill ever have; and have hurt the performance of the offense by increasing Palmer's role in an unwarranted and undeserved fashion. I think Carter does add some speed/quickness, but that we are still a little light in that area even with the addition of him. We still have the best overall talent on offense, but we have made some mistakes along the way that have prevented and are preventing that offense from being even better.

Contrary to last Sunday, in which Lombardi went "all Anthony Lynn" on us in the second half by calling way too many running plays, Lombardi actually did do a good job of calling an increased number of passing plays, but his play selection within those passing plays was off some. He obviously did not call enough deep passing plays as he got called out by the national sports media last year for failing to do, which was more than supported by the fact that Guyton did not have a very deep reception all year until the 12th game of the season, which is asinine when you are calling plays for Justin Herbert, arguably the game's best deep passer.

But last Sunday was even worse with the return to Anthony Lynn ball. And worse than that, after the game, Staley seemed to think that our running the ball more was a good thing.

My response is simply that if we call plays like we did on Sunday against KC, you can mark down the loss for us right now. What we need to do is to go toe to toe with them. Herbert is better than Mahomes and our defense is better than their defense. But Reid isn't going to shackle Mahomes with his play calling like Lombardi did with Herbert in the second half on Sunday. We need to put the ball in the hands of our best player, who also happens to be the league's best player (Herbert).

[21&500]

20220913_160917.jpg

[21&500]

Your statement about my views is completely false.

I have stated that Herbert is the best player in the entire league and at the most important position. I was the biggest champion for the re-signing of Williams because he is elite when it comes to contested catches and clutch catches late in games. I have lauded Allen for his ability to gain quick, early separation. I have always spoken highly of Ekeler, but have expressed the desire to get an elite #2 RB, who could handle a slightly greater workload than the typical #2 RB because of Ekeler's lack of size and the pounding at the RB position. (BTW, that RB is still not on the roster.) I think our OL is very good, but like most of us, I have some concern about how our RT position will play out.

All in all though, I think we have the best offensive talent in the entire league.

My issues with the Telesco/Staley/Lombardi are that in drafting we have become a team that reaches versus consensus too regularly and the consensus is right far more often than the early outlier drafter. From day 1, I have noted that Palmer was a reach versus consensus (which is just a fact) and that he has zero elite traits. He is a "jack of all meh". Does he belong on an NFL roster? Yes. But he is a reserve that the coaching staff and many on this forum have hugely overvalued.

Did we reach with Woods in the same round this year as with Palmer the year before, same fashion, and with a similar two-round reach versus consensus? Yes, we did.

Will we end up paying in the long run for repeated reaches against consensus rankings? Yes, we will. It is just a bad draft strategy.

Returning to Palmer, I keep asking this question--how does Palmer win? Not one person on this forum has offered a meaningful response--because he has no known high end trait that he relies on to win. He is okay at some things, but bad at gaining separation because he is not super fast and his moves are significantly below average. He lacks Williams' size and contested catch ability, so the lack of separation matters a whole bunch more with him than it does with Williams, who some might fairly say is the kind of receiver that is "open" even when he is covered. But Palmer is not that guy and could never be that guy because his frame simply is not big enough even when maxed out with good weight.

Some have claimed that Palmer should be allowed time to develop, but those same standards are not/were not applied to Guyton and Johnson, both of whom do have an elite ability and one that complements the elite abilities of our top 2 WRs, Allen and Williams. And that kind of argument (time to develop) should be more applicable to Guyton and Johnson who have superior natural physical ability and less so to a player that was known for being a more precise route runner and being more fundamentally developed such as Palmer. That Palmer developed himself considerably before entering the NFL is a positive for Palmer, but it does suggest that there is less improvement (development) left for him than there may be for other receivers that first enter the league that may have elite traits, but that are more raw.

So yes, the team wasted draft capital when it reached for Palmer; wasted talent when it cut Johnson, who worked better with Herbert in just 12 games than either Palmer or K.J. Hill ever have; and have hurt the performance of the offense by increasing Palmer's role in an unwarranted and undeserved fashion. I think Carter does add some speed/quickness, but that we are still a little light in that area even with the addition of him. We still have the best overall talent on offense, but we have made some mistakes along the way that have prevented and are preventing that offense from being even better.

Contrary to last Sunday, in which Lombardi went "all Anthony Lynn" on us in the second half by calling way too many running plays, Lombardi actually did do a good job of calling an increased number of passing plays, but his play selection within those passing plays was off some. He obviously did not call enough deep passing plays as he got called out by the national sports media last year for failing to do, which was more than supported by the fact that Guyton did not have a very deep reception all year until the 12th game of the season, which is asinine when you are calling plays for Justin Herbert, arguably the game's best deep passer.

But last Sunday was even worse with the return to Anthony Lynn ball. And worse than that, after the game, Staley seemed to think that our running the ball more was a good thing.

My response is simply that if we call plays like we did on Sunday against KC, you can mark down the loss for us right now. What we need to do is to go toe to toe with them. Herbert is better than Mahomes and our defense is better than their defense. But Reid isn't going to shackle Mahomes with his play calling like Lombardi did with Herbert in the second half on Sunday. We need to put the ball in the hands of our best player, who also happens to be the league's best player (Herbert).

The only point I'll defend is that Staley was saying the runs were positive gains and helping us get into 2nd and 3rd and short while keeping the clock running, so that's why he felt they were appropriate. And I agree, we need to continue to run so long as it's netting us positives, primarily on first down.
what I didn't like were ineffective run plays on 2nd down, where we're basically content with having a third down, at all.

as a general rule, I'd like to let Herbert convert on 2nd down.

[kgbpasha]

Josh McDaniels is a slow thinker.
He's probably a good coach outside of a game setting
but when the rounds are live, he's not up to the task.

In this short post game clip, he utters the phrase, "you know"
117 times for an average of "you know" once every 7 seconds.

That's a space filler to try and think of what to say next.
His brain isn't wired to handle fast live action.

This will cause him to fail during crucial game management
in-game adjustments.

Staley on the other hand, could use a little less caffeine in his
daily routine. #boltup

[Boltjolt]

Josh McDaniels is a slow thinker.
He's probably a good coach outside of a game setting
but when the rounds are live, he's not up to the task.

In this short post game clip, he utters the phrase, "you know"
117 times for an average of "you know" once every 7 seconds.

That's a space filler to try and think of what to say next.
His brain isn't wired to handle fast live action.

This will cause him to fail during crucial game management
in-game adjustments.

Staley on the other hand, could use a little less caffeine in his
daily routine. #boltup

Should of heard Hackett talking post game. He was speed talking and taking deep breaths. Thought he was going to hyperventilate.

[kgbpasha]

Should of heard Hackett talking post game. He was speed talking and taking deep breaths. Thought he was going to hyperventilate.

I watched just to see if he would give us a glimpse into his mind.
I must say...I hope they hold on to that guy for at least a decade (wishful thinking).

It's pretty clear he's only coaching at this level because of his last name
and that in itself is hilarious.

There was zero chance of Rodgers following that hack to Denver.

.

[Guest]

The only point I'll defend is that Staley was saying the runs were positive gains and helping us get into 2nd and 3rd and short while keeping the clock running, so that's why he felt they were appropriate. And I agree, we need to continue to run so long as it's netting us positives, primarily on first down.
what I didn't like were ineffective run plays on 2nd down, where we're basically content with having a third down, at all.

as a general rule, I'd like to let Herbert convert on 2nd down.

I would like to see more play action passing on first downs followed by more running plays out of second down passing situations after incomplete or very short passes. We are not a good running team when teams are ready for us to run. We can run the ball more effectively when the other team is not focused as much on defending the run.

I do not like first down runs except as an occasional change of pace as that puts us behind the sticks, which creates more difficult down and distance situation for Herbert. As Tony Romo pointed out last year, at least two plays of every series of downs need to be passing plays. If, as a result, we end up passing the ball more than 70% of the time, so be it. I would like to see Herbert lead the league in passing attempts.

[powderblueboy]

Should of heard Hackett talking post game. He was speed talking and taking deep breaths. Thought he was going to hyperventilate.

Is it me, or is putting on that orange donkey cap starting to look like the sign of a loser in a crappy organization?

[blueman]

Is it me, or is putting on that orange donkey cap starting to look like the sign of a loser in a crappy organization?

It’s not you.