Chargers (+6) @ Chiefs Pregame Discussion (Wk 7)

[Lefty2SLO]

A big advantage Mahomes has over Herbert is consistency in a system.
Mahomes sat behind veteran Alex Smith his rookie year in Andy Reid system. And has played in that system his entire career with good OLs and all time great TE target.

JH played as a rookie behind a bad OL.
He did finish the year with 4 straight wins. Won OROY.
Then Spanos/Telesco change coaches and offensive systems for the kid who just finish 4-0. He does well under new coaches and in new system. He gets a second year in that system and make playoffs for first time. They change offensive systems again.

Win OROY in a system. System gets changed.
Goes to playoffs in a system. System gets changed.

At what point does he get to parlay success in a system into consistency in that system year after year.

Let's say they take off and he goes bananas this year and they win a post season game. And someone hires Kellen Moore to be their HC. Are they going to at least keep the same system? Have they at least decided this is the system Herbert will play the rest of his career as a Charger. Even if they have to replace OCs, it will be in house promotion or someone who runs the same system with same terminology.

I'm pretty sure he is still getting comfortable in this system. I don't know if it was him or the RB but they were not on same page a couple times. Growing pains of getting used to a new system.

When he plays for a different ownership group . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[rensoul]

Spags isn't stupid . . . . . . . . . he knows how much Herbert relies (and looks for) Keenan. He'll double KA and force Herbert to go elsewhere - it's the smart play. Herbert has got to get more than a couple of guys involved in the passing game (QJ, DD) - It can't be all KA and Palmer.

Yea, saw this dynamic last season when MW wasn't available and teams would double up KA. They need to work in the rookies whether Herbert trusts them fully or not, they are likely to be the ones with single coverage and supposed to be the YAC and speed guys. Everett will help some but it's time to get the rookies more involved.

[Critty]

EXACTLY. RBs are of little value. You get guys like Pacheco in the 7th round. Holes are open as teams play two deep to stop the explosive plays. KC wasted a first round pick on CEH. They learned their lesson. They have 2 guys on PS that can probably get yards when needed. Its a passing league. Tenn has won nothing with the King of nothing.

The very next pick was T.Higgins. can you imagine..as a Chargers fan. I'm glad they fkd that pick up.

[Lefty2SLO]

Its my understanding that the Chargers have the most expensive defense in the NFL? Not sure where I heard that. It seems its that defense that is the most questionable issue? Thats a clear indication of some very poor player evaluations, free agent signings , cap management and perhaps coaching.

The Chiefs have only one starter on defense that was not a draft choice. Its Reed at safety. The rest of the starters are all drafted by KC. Yes they have some good back ups that were free agents.

So KC has a very low salaried defense. Its the main reason they are still a top level team. The league and players union put pressure ON KC to give Mahomes more money. He was fine with his previous deal but even he bowed to the Union to increase his salary. QB pay is a big problem in the NFL. Its way too high a percentage of the cap. Now Herbert makes Elite Money starting next year and that becomes a problem for the Chargers.

KC will lose more really good players next year simply because Mahomes makes way too much money. Thus you see average receivers now. They will likely lose Sneed and Willie Gay and a few others. Every year becomes lots of new players and signing short free agent contracts like KC did with Tranquill. With a top QB you must draft extremely well.

MY Take: Put most of your money on offense and hope for a middle of the pack defense.

That was the plan all thru the offseason, but the defense isn't anywhere near middle of the pack and the offense is also underperforming . . . . . . . it's a bad combination.

[Lefty2SLO]

Yea, saw this dynamic last season when MW wasn't available and teams would double up KA. They need to work in the rookies whether Herbert trusts them fully or not, they are likely to be the ones with single coverage and supposed to be the YAC and speed guys. Everett will help some but it's time to get the rookies more involved.

Time and past time . . . . . . . . . . . but it doesn't seem to be so easy to just flip the switch and get these guys involved in the passing game - at least for our coaching staff.

[Riverwalk]

Is this yet another game they tease and stay close until the end and lose by 3 points?

[Lone Bolt]

Gotta start working towards a more open passing game...one knock I have on Herbert is, he plays like he doesnt want to waste a throw/opportunity on recievers he doesnt fully trust...he has gotta uncork it...hit those boys, and either they make the play, or learn thru failure. Rinse and repeat, and we will have 4 or 5 viable targets, instead of 2 to 3...that is huge. And these next few games are the ones to make that happen, to get us dialed in if we are gonna make a run the second half of the season...the KC game especially...what have we got to lose? Especially with Q...only way we are gonna launch this kid is to throw him into the fire...time to temper that blade...

[Kellyb72601]

I don't think they'll stay close. I watch most games of all teams every week & the chargers are one of the slowest most predictable offenses I've seen and they're slow at every level. Tennessee is slow but at least they can run the ball. One reason our line is so bad at run blocking is they're too damn slow to get to their blocks. In the dropback game Herbert just zeroes in on Keenan every snap and most of the time doesn't look anywhere else. That's too bad because Palmer has actually morphed into an A level receiver but nobody realizes it yet. He has some unique ability to separate at the top of his routes like Amari Cooper & Keenan he just needs more balls thrown his way.

I was never very high on Kellen Moore after going back and watching all the Dallas games last season, but I thought he'd at least provide a consistent upgrade running the ball and building things off that. But that hasn't happened and it's becoming apparent he's actually been a significant downgrade. He doesn't use the screen game near enough and doesn't get all the receivers involved. I noticed this in Dallas too - Amari Cooper got traded to Cleveland & they thought he was pretty much done but he's been consistently lighting it up for Cleveland. Now here he has Keenan, Palmer, & QJ but Moore has pretty much turned it into a 1 receiver every snap offense.

So I expect a lot of 3 & outs with Moore trying to run the ball into an 8 man front & Herbert getting pressured every 3rd & long.

[Bolt4Knob]

[/B][/U]

That was the plan all thru the offseason, but the defense isn't anywhere near middle of the pack and the offense is also underperforming . . . . . . . it's a bad combination.

Offense has zero running game, average WRs and the OLine can't pass protect
Defense is below average

The punter is terrible

Herbert will have to be pretty perfect Sunday

[UtahBolt]

I don't think they'll stay close. I watch most games of all teams every week & the chargers are one of the slowest most predictable offenses I've seen and they're slow at every level. Tennessee is slow but at least they can run the ball. One reason our line is so bad at run blocking is they're too damn slow to get to their blocks. In the dropback game Herbert just zeroes in on Keenan every snap and most of the time doesn't look anywhere else. That's too bad because Palmer has actually morphed into an A level receiver but nobody realizes it yet. He has some unique ability to separate at the top of his routes like Amari Cooper & Keenan he just needs more balls thrown his way.

I was never very high on Kellen Moore after going back and watching all the Dallas games last season, but I thought he'd at least provide a consistent upgrade running the ball and building things off that. But that hasn't happened and it's becoming apparent he's actually been a significant downgrade. He doesn't use the screen game near enough and doesn't get all the receivers involved. I noticed this in Dallas too - Amari Cooper got traded to Cleveland & they thought he was pretty much done but he's been consistently lighting it up for Cleveland. Now here he has Keenan, Palmer, & QJ but Moore has pretty much turned it into a 1 receiver every snap offense.

So I expect a lot of 3 & outs with Moore trying to run the ball into an 8 man front & Herbert getting pressured every 3rd & long.

The ineffectiveness of the running game has been the most disappointing thing about the team this year. That and Palmer seems to be criminally underused yet again. Strange. I was excited for Moore but realize now how stale the offense is. BTW-you're spot on with you're offense is slow take, there is no elite speed anywhere...

[Bolt4Knob]

The ineffectiveness of the running game has been the most disappointing thing about the team this year. That and Palmer seems to be criminally underused yet again. Strange. I was excited for Moore but realize now how stale the offense is. BTW-you're spot on with you're offense is slow take, there is no elite speed anywhere...

The WRs were slow last year too --
Telesco doesn't value speed
He is truly, a bottom 5 GM in the NFL

[Kellyb72601]

When I use the word slow it's more in they style of offense not necessarily the speed at the skill positions. It's old man football. Look at a team like san francisco they're not really a fast offense but they appear fast on the field because their line can all move effectively and the coordinator has so much misdirection it creates blocking advantages and open space nearly every snap. Lineman pull, they get out in space, there's tons of various forms of play action etc. Our offense is slow from the standpoint it's mostly just old 80's style beat the man in front of you vertical football. The lineman are not athletic they can't get out in space and the offense is very old school.