2024 Chargers Roster Build Discussion - Transactions | News

[richpjr]

Oh I don’t think anyone will freak. But it’ll be like with anybody we pick at 5 not MHJ, we’ll simply hope for the best.

We may not be one player away, but in this draft there is only one MHJ. He’s kinda like Highlander lol.

LOL - it's a public forum, people freak out about everything! Go back and read the Herbert draft pick discussion here for some fun takes.

[Bolt4Knob]

And this draft seems to have quite a few very good RTs, all through it. Build the trenches indeed.

JH2 have a goal to win. They have been pretty vocal about the kind of team they want. But I think they are also smart enough to realize, especially with the 5th pick - you might OT - but if not just MHJr but Nabers or Turner is the best pure football player of the non QBs on your board and OT is further down in rankings - they are going to take talent. If that talent fits the scheme of the roster.

The Chargers have so many needs on their roster - they don't have to focus on position. Especially the first three rounds. they can just rank the players, and probably pick the best player on their board and more than likely, it will fill a need

It seems that by a lot of reports - they want to trade down. This does two things 1) gets them more picks 2) allows them to pick a player that fills a need they want filled but at a spot in the draft that represents the pick better

[blueman]

JH2 have a goal to win. They have been pretty vocal about the kind of team they want. But I think they are also smart enough to realize, especially with the 5th pick - you might OT - but if not just MHJr but Nabers or Turner is the best pure football player of the non QBs on your board and OT is further down in rankings - they are going to take talent. If that talent fits the scheme of the roster.

The Chargers have so many needs on their roster - they don't have to focus on position. Especially the first three rounds. they can just rank the players, and probably pick the best player on their board and more than likely, it will fill a need

It seems that by a lot of reports - they want to trade down. This does two things 1) gets them more picks 2) allows them to pick a player that fills a need they want filled but at a spot in the draft that represents the pick better

Well and succinctly put. 👍

Trust in JH2.

[blueman]

LOL - it's a public forum, people freak out about everything! Go back and read the Herbert draft pick discussion here for some fun takes.

Oh true. I was iffy on Herbert, glad he turned out to be Thor.
😎

[Jack Burton]

Daniel Jeremiah saying CHI could very well trade up to 5 for a WR.
He was told by guys who are from MICH in the Chargers emphatically that “2 times a year we’ll need something special, the rest of the season we’re playing Harbaugh football” Implying they don’t necessarily value these top 3 WRs the way others do.
Also he said don’t think Harbaugh won’t go defense 1st. Even both picks if they trade down. Those 49ers teams were stout.

Buckle up…

[Bolt4Knob]

Well and succinctly put. 👍

Trust in JH2.

I was reading Poppers mock draft and he picked Nabers as he was using Dane Bruglers NFL Draft Guide -the Beast. And Popper noted that Alt was ranked 5th - like it fits the draft slot. But if you look at Danes top 100: It was Caleb, MHJr, Nabers, forget who was 4th and Alt was 5th. Well say QBs do go 1-3 and MHjr is 4 - you don't pass on talent of Nabers who is your third best player to take a lesser player at 5. Now maybe in Round 2 or later, sure, you fill the need with talent that close. But in the top 5 - my guess there is a pretty decent difference between 3 and 5 - much more than 35 and 37.

[Maniaque 6]

Daniel Jeremiah saying CHI could very well trade up to 5 for a WR.
He was told by guys who are from MICH in the Chargers emphatically that “2 times a year we’ll need something special, the rest of the season we’re playing Harbaugh football” Implying they don’t necessarily value these top 3 WRs the way others do.
Also he said don’t think Harbaugh won’t go defense 1st. Even both picks if they trade down. Those 49ers teams were stout.

Buckle up…

CHI has no 2nd round pick this year.
Their #9 and 75 are not enough.

[Bolt4Knob]

Daniel Jeremiah saying CHI could very well trade up to 5 for a WR.
He was told by guys who are from MICH in the Chargers emphatically that “2 times a year we’ll need something special, the rest of the season we’re playing Harbaugh football” Implying they don’t necessarily value these top 3 WRs the way others do.
Also he said don’t think Harbaugh won’t go defense 1st. Even both picks if they trade down. Those 49ers teams were stout.

Buckle up…

Fine by me - let the Bears trade up from 9 to 5 and get draft picks from the Bears - open for business. Big NEON sign

[Jack Burton]

CHI has no 2nd round pick this year.
Their #9 and 75 are not enough.

Don’t shoot the messenger, I’m just relaying what he said.

[SuperChargedRodney37]

That is complete conjecture. The Vikings traded this year's 2nd rounder and next year's 2nd rounder to move up to #23. They didn't do that without exploring possible trade partners and/or considering what other QB-hungry teams might have to out-bid them.

Good morning, Boltnut,

See this is why I love this exercise. I opened this for something to think about that these teams must address in discussions. This is not conjecture at all when you think about this from both teams perspective standpoints.
You are simply looking at this from only what YOU would prefer the Chargers to do. You will notice I didn't once speak in any absolutes, I simply laid out a pattern of logical discussion that would have to be true in order for this trade to happen.
I don't speak for "Everybody" nor does "Everybody" speak for me.

Now I will address each of your points because again I love this type of discussion and thank you for this engagement.

The #11 and #23 picks are 310 points higher than the #5 pick.
Next year's 2nd rounder is worth... get this... around 310 points (Houston's #59 pick).
Don't be surprised if Hortiz is real happy to get this deal... with or without any additional picks.
I have actually mentioned this in multiple threads already. The Vikings would be overpaying the Chargers by the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. Correct.
**People are making this assumption for whatever reason that the Vikings actually engaged Houston first for that trade. It was actually the other way around and the reasoning for Houston is quite simple if you know the background on where Nick Caserio came from**
The second part of this is your opinion on what you think Joe Hortiz thinks. "Which is fine by the way"
However, I would ask that you just consider these facts that have been spoken by either Joe or Jim.

• Joe says BPA @ #5. (Addressed later in board options)
• Jim says if the first 4 QB's are taken the "Value" of pick #5 becomes the "Value" of pick #1, why is that? Hint: It's not Joe Alt. (I'll address their board options further down)

As for your "Vikings facts"...
1) I think it's fair to say that the Vikings want a QB. Are they desperate enough to give up a 2025 1st round pick...? No. Otherwise, the Arizona deal would be done by now.
3) As I've said before... if the Vikings valued Maye/McCarthy enough... the deal would be done with AZ already.
The first thing we 100% agree on. They do want a QB.
The second part I again agree with you 100%.
By that's why I presented the word "Desperate".
You just made my point of the exercise at point #1. If Point #1 (Desperation) isn't true, then how do you convince yourself that they are willing to "overspend" to the equivalent on a 2nd round pick to get pick #5.

2) Everybody thinks Maye and McCarthy are better than Nix and Penix. There is no controversy here.
This is where trouble starts and why I don't speak in absolutes like this. You used the term "Everybody" and I'll ask you, what team drafts a player based on "everybody's think tank opinion"? Answer is Nobody. Who cares what everybody thinks. This is strictly about what the Vikings think. What value does the Vikings place on these QB's. What does their QB board look like.
Also, what value does the Chargers place on pick #5, the player they can potentially draft and their Big board.

4) Everybody has MHJ above Nabers/Odunze. The Cardinals. The Chargers. The Giants... everyone.
Again, we must be careful with these absolutes. This is not group think drafting in the NFL. It is a simple assumption that everybody has MHJ above the rest. I'll admit a logical one, but an assumption none the less.
The other logical assumption to be made is that Harrison will be drafted before pick #5.
Now here's where the rub happens with respect to the Chargers and their board. The question is what value the Chargers have placed on Nabers/Odunze with respect to their board?
I'm of the "Opinion" that their board is #1 MHJ followed closely by some combination of Nabers/Odunze at #2/3. I came to this conclusion based on a number of evidential factors, which includes from my perspective, "Positional Value" and the amount of cost-control and the ROI (Return On Investment) they would accumulate by making that pick.
Therefore, the pick is worth more to them enough to demand a 2025 1st even if MHJ is not there. (IMHO)

5) Everything I know about Hortiz/Harbaugh/Roman leads me to believe that Joe Alt is probably sandwiched in between Nabers/Odunze. He might even be valued higher. You won't believe it. The sports writers won't believe it... but Harbaugh & Boys believe it. They made sure to meet with Joe Alt during the combine... and it wasn't because they thought he'd be there @#11.
This is your "opinion" but it's great and there is nothing wrong with it. It makes for great discussion on the subject. You maybe %100 correct. You are right that I don't believe it but it's not because I don't see Alt as a Blue-Chip Prospect. (Although, I have talked to scouts and if it was 10 scouts they had 6 different opinions on who their Top tackle is? So, there is no consensus among the ranks here) But that's another discussion.)
My reasoning for not believe Alt is in their Top 3 on the board is simply this and I haven't heard anyone who is for drafting Alt @5 discuss this very real and true situation. Until, that discussion follows the draft Alt talk, I just can't take it seriously.
Here it is: Do the Charger believe that the value of Alt is so much at #5 that they are willing to investment $41 million dollars to find out whether he can, A) Transition to RT? B) Fit the Scheme and the RT responsibilities? C) Beat out Pipkins day One? Is he that valuable to them? IMHO the answer is NO. Should anybody answer "yes or absolutely" see below.
If you say "yes or absolutely". then let's dive into this question. What now, do you do with your ALL-Pro, Captain, Pillar, LT Rashawn Slater? The drafting of Alt starts a financial avalanche of decisions for this team. Did you know that Slater is scheduled to make less money this season than starting RT Trey Pipkins? So, suffice to say that drafting Alt @5 could have great financial consequences.
I believe the team will extend Slater this off-season as the pillar to the line. If they do this and draft Alt they will have 30% of their Cap tied up in the Tackle position.
For comparison, Bosa and Mack take up 20% and the team thought that was too much for roster building.
That's why I don't buy the Alt talk or any Lineman in Round #1. Alt @ 5 means a Slater holdout is coming and more than likely a Slater replacement.

7) Your idea of a premium player and our coach's idea of a premium player are worlds apart. Coach Bischoff called the offense OL-Centric.
I'm not speaking on a Premium "Players" Just to be clear. I'm talking "Premium Positions in the League. Which the league has clearly defined by the NFL Salaries and the Money. The money says (QB/ LT/ CB1/ WR1/ Edge/) Are premium positions. You could argue Safety now instead of LB/RB.
Our "Coaches" idea of Premium positions is the exact same as the league says. Hortiz/Harbaugh have already been in perfect alignment with this line of thinking. ie. Gus Edwards, the TE's, the Salary restructures, etc.
This team is going to be OL-Centric in its importance and I don't argue that point. However, how the team accomplishes this is where I see disconnect on this forum. You can be Oline Centric and simply build more depth by adding versatile pieces you can develop into future starting material, so that when an injury should take place there is less drop off in terms of talent. It becomes a more cohesive unit as a whole.
It's harder to accomplish this if Two-Starters are taking 30% of the cap. You accomplish more by spreading out the budget with more capable players but not overspending on the less Premium positions across the line.

For example: If Pipkins was so bad to them, they could have brought in RT La'el Collins who just sign a 1 year $1,500,000 contract with Buffalo to compete at RT with Pipkins.
Does it make sense to spend $37 million for slot #5 or $21 million for slot #11 on a RT? They might think so but IMHO I say no sir.

Sorry for the long posts folks. I just enjoy talking about ALL the aspects of Football.
Thanks to all who engage in the conversation and remember that no matter what, this is a great time to be a Charger Fan
BOLT UP EVRYONE!!!

[Topcat]

If the rumors are true that the Cards want 3 1st rnders (#11, #23, and 2025 1st rnd) to trade down. This tells me (conjecture) that the Cards have no interest in trading down and they know who they are going to pick (MHJ). If the Vikings offer #11, #23, and 4th rnder this year I would do it in a New York minute. They could turn that #23 into more draft picks and having 3 4th rnd draft picks is very nice in this draft.

That deal you propose is actually very reasonable...but if you look at Trader Joe's history, he LOVES to stockpile future draft picks, especially 3rd and 4th rounders...so in the end, it might be #11, #23, this year's 4th rounder and maybe a next year's 3rd or 4th rounder...

[Fouts2herbert]

LOL - it's a public forum, people freak out about everything! Go back and read the Herbert draft pick discussion here for some fun takes.

the Herbert draft is the reason I signed up, I hadn't been a poster since the old Charger forum days and to read all the ridiculous bullshit around Justin and I'm like, "What the fuck am I missing here?" apparently I wasn't the one that was wrong on that one, but damn, the pick seemed so fucking obvious to me it was like wow, what the fuck is wrong with our fans?

the next year I wanted Darrisaw but only because I didn't think that Slater would be there where we were picking so was super excited we got him instead...the year after that is only the third time that the chargers have actually drafted a guy I clung too from day one, other two times it was Seau and Tomilinson, of course Zion is not that type of player but us picking later made it difficult to project that pick and when it happened I was shocked that it was the guy I wanted and I still think he has a bright future just waiting to be unlocked by a better coaching staff...Last year I was all about the Edge rushers and was surprised that the WRs fell, so while QJ was not one of my targets, I was in love with Myles Murphy and was really hoping he would be in our cluster and then when he was there I about pooped my pants and they drafted QJ instead...I'm super happy with Tuli and that turned out well for us but I still think Murphy was a better pick at #21 and then they could've drafted that center from Minnesota we all liked, all he did in NY was become a member of the all rookie team...and it's not like we didn't know that Linsley was close to the end...