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  • DerwinBosa
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Feb 2022
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    #23053
    Originally posted by CanadianBoltFan View Post

    It was not an impossible task for Joe Hortiz to improve the IOL after a dismal showing last year in the playoffs and much of the regular season. Some of the same posters that say there was nothing Joe could have done in one off season are the same posters who were critical of the Chicago Bears for spending money in free agency to totally revamp their IOL

    Welll...the Bears have had very good play out of their free agents they signed as UFAs....they have won their division... have an excellent running game... and have protected their young QB and enabled him to develop in his 2nd season. The IOL is the strength of the line, the Bears are not particularly strong at tackle and they have had injuries at tackle. In one off season the Bears turned a weakness into a strength.

    So yes it is possible for Joe Hortiz to do a better job at providing his franchise QB a competent offensive line. Two things can be true at once. Hortiz and Harbaugh have done a very good job with the overall roster but they have failed with the IOL in their 2 seasons. That is just the fact. Frankly the organization should be a little embarrassed by what Justin Herbert has been subjected to.

    So this off season THERE ARE NO EXCUSES LEFT to not have a competent offensive line in 2026 that can protect Herbert and run block in YEAR 3 of this management.
    The Chiefs were not going to trade Joe Thuney to us. Drew Dalman does not fit our offense and I have seen him and Jonah Jackson get pushed around a lot on passing plays, in which Caleb Williams has prevented many of their pressures given up by running around and making plays. The PFF grades you rely on state that Drew Dalman has given up 23 pressures this season, ranking him 34th among centers. Jonah Jackson, according to PFF, has allowed 26 pressures, ranking him 51st among guards. How reliable is PFF? I have my doubts, given how it states Bradley Bozeman has allowed only two sacks this season, but I have seen enough Bears games to know that they don't have a great center or right guard when it comes to pass-blocking. Meanwhile, Dalman will be making an average of $14 million over the next two years. So, your solution to the center position was to give a higher contract than $42 million over three years to Dalman, who doesn't fit our offense and doesn't pass-protect well? As far as Jackson goes, I don't recall you screaming for him over Mekhi Becton last offseason. With that said, Jackson's cap hits over the next two years will be $17 million each. We all thought Becton was better than Jackson, and Hortiz was smart enough to include a potential out in his contract this offseason.

    Also, the Bears spent a second-round pick on Ozzy Trapilo because their starting left tackle heading into this season was Braxton Jones, a 2022 fifth-round pick who is scheduled to become a free agent in 2026. Jones missed six games in 2023 and five in 2024. Now he's on injured reserve after playing only six games this season. I don't recall you or anyone else screaming for Ozzy Trapilo in the second round last April. I doubt the Bears would have made that pick if they had Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt as starters, with former starter Trey Pipkins as the swing.

    Not seeing where Hortiz made the mistakes that you are by not going after the players the Bears got, but not surprisingly we once again disagree. You're also conveniently leaving out the Vikings, who failed to fix their offensive line by overpaying for free agent offensive linemen you touted last offseason--center Ryan Kelly, who's 32 and has missed half the season, and guard Will Fries, who sucks.

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    • Bolt4Knob
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Dec 2019
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      #23054
      Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

      The Chiefs were not going to trade Joe Thuney to us. Drew Dalman does not fit our offense and I have seen him and Jonah Jackson get pushed around a lot on passing plays, in which Caleb Williams has prevented many of their pressures given up by running around and making plays. The PFF grades you rely on state that Drew Dalman has given up 23 pressures this season, ranking him 34th among centers. Jonah Jackson, according to PFF, has allowed 26 pressures, ranking him 51st among guards. How reliable is PFF? I have my doubts, given how it states Bradley Bozeman has allowed only two sacks this season, but I have seen enough Bears games to know that they don't have a great center or right guard when it comes to pass-blocking. Meanwhile, Dalman will be making an average of $14 million over the next two years. So, your solution to the center position was to give a higher contract than $42 million over three years to Dalman, who doesn't fit our offense and doesn't pass-protect well? As far as Jackson goes, I don't recall you screaming for him over Mekhi Becton last offseason. With that said, Jackson's cap hits over the next two years will be $17 million each. We all thought Becton was better than Jackson, and Hortiz was smart enough to include a potential out in his contract this offseason.

      Also, the Bears spent a second-round pick on Ozzy Trapilo because their starting left tackle heading into this season was Braxton Jones, a 2022 fifth-round pick who is scheduled to become a free agent in 2026. Jones missed six games in 2023 and five in 2024. Now he's on injured reserve after playing only six games this season. I don't recall you or anyone else screaming for Ozzy Trapilo in the second round last April. I doubt the Bears would have made that pick if they had Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt as starters, with former starter Trey Pipkins as the swing.

      Not seeing where Hortiz made the mistakes that you are by not going after the players the Bears got, but not surprisingly we once again disagree. You're also conveniently leaving out the Vikings, who failed to fix their offensive line by overpaying for free agent offensive linemen you touted last offseason--center Ryan Kelly, who's 32 and has missed half the season, and guard Will Fries, who sucks.
      Good points about Dalman, not the right fit, and Thuney and Jonah Jackson as fits for the Chargers

      That said, the Bears did make an economic investment for their IOL. Each of those players AAV is around 14-16m. Not saying Hortiz has to sign big money for all three but he will have to put some money forward. And draft capital as well.

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      • electricgold
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Apr 2020
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        #23055
        Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

        The Chiefs were not going to trade Joe Thuney to us. Drew Dalman does not fit our offense and I have seen him and Jonah Jackson get pushed around a lot on passing plays, in which Caleb Williams has prevented many of their pressures given up by running around and making plays. The PFF grades you rely on state that Drew Dalman has given up 23 pressures this season, ranking him 34th among centers. Jonah Jackson, according to PFF, has allowed 26 pressures, ranking him 51st among guards. How reliable is PFF? I have my doubts, given how it states Bradley Bozeman has allowed only two sacks this season, but I have seen enough Bears games to know that they don't have a great center or right guard when it comes to pass-blocking. Meanwhile, Dalman will be making an average of $14 million over the next two years. So, your solution to the center position was to give a higher contract than $42 million over three years to Dalman, who doesn't fit our offense and doesn't pass-protect well? As far as Jackson goes, I don't recall you screaming for him over Mekhi Becton last offseason. With that said, Jackson's cap hits over the next two years will be $17 million each. We all thought Becton was better than Jackson, and Hortiz was smart enough to include a potential out in his contract this offseason.

        Also, the Bears spent a second-round pick on Ozzy Trapilo because their starting left tackle heading into this season was Braxton Jones, a 2022 fifth-round pick who is scheduled to become a free agent in 2026. Jones missed six games in 2023 and five in 2024. Now he's on injured reserve after playing only six games this season. I don't recall you or anyone else screaming for Ozzy Trapilo in the second round last April. I doubt the Bears would have made that pick if they had Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt as starters, with former starter Trey Pipkins as the swing.

        Not seeing where Hortiz made the mistakes that you are by not going after the players the Bears got, but not surprisingly we once again disagree. You're also conveniently leaving out the Vikings, who failed to fix their offensive line by overpaying for free agent offensive linemen you touted last offseason--center Ryan Kelly, who's 32 and has missed half the season, and guard Will Fries, who sucks.
        You do realize you are coming off as a champion for our current Oline and defending the worst Oline in the league. There are moves that Hortiz could have done since the Houston Texas playoff loss to make our oline better than what it is today, where it was clear as day our Oline was not good enough for anything other but a one and done playoff run! And YES during the last draft I was pining for the Chargers to draft Ozzie Trapilo, I even posted film on him predraft.

        Our current oline depth is one of the worst assemblance of journeyman olinemen ever! Ask former Chargers Db Quentin Jammer!

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        • CanadianBoltFan
          Registered Charger Fan
          • Jul 2022
          • 10915
          • White Rock, BC Canada
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          #23056
          Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

          The Chiefs were not going to trade Joe Thuney to us. Drew Dalman does not fit our offense and I have seen him and Jonah Jackson get pushed around a lot on passing plays, in which Caleb Williams has prevented many of their pressures given up by running around and making plays. The PFF grades you rely on state that Drew Dalman has given up 23 pressures this season, ranking him 34th among centers. Jonah Jackson, according to PFF, has allowed 26 pressures, ranking him 51st among guards. How reliable is PFF? I have my doubts, given how it states Bradley Bozeman has allowed only two sacks this season, but I have seen enough Bears games to know that they don't have a great center or right guard when it comes to pass-blocking. Meanwhile, Dalman will be making an average of $14 million over the next two years. So, your solution to the center position was to give a higher contract than $42 million over three years to Dalman, who doesn't fit our offense and doesn't pass-protect well? As far as Jackson goes, I don't recall you screaming for him over Mekhi Becton last offseason. With that said, Jackson's cap hits over the next two years will be $17 million each. We all thought Becton was better than Jackson, and Hortiz was smart enough to include a potential out in his contract this offseason.

          Also, the Bears spent a second-round pick on Ozzy Trapilo because their starting left tackle heading into this season was Braxton Jones, a 2022 fifth-round pick who is scheduled to become a free agent in 2026. Jones missed six games in 2023 and five in 2024. Now he's on injured reserve after playing only six games this season. I don't recall you or anyone else screaming for Ozzy Trapilo in the second round last April. I doubt the Bears would have made that pick if they had Rashawn Slater and Joe Alt as starters, with former starter Trey Pipkins as t swing.

          Not seeing where Hortiz made the mistakes that you are by not going after the players the Bears got, but not surprisingly we once again disagree. You're also conveniently leaving out the Vikings, who failed to fix their offensive line by overpaying for free agent offensive linemen you touted last offseason--center Ryan Kelly, who's 32 and has missed half the season, and guard Will Fries, who sucks.
          Good counter points that have some validity. The numbers arent there you are right but when I watch the Bears the line and the center dont look like matadors. And they run the football, quite well,

          Not really saying the Bears moves are perfect or the exact moves for the Chargers... but i dont think Caleb is injured, has taken 54 sacks and the most hits and pressures in the NFL by a mile. The Chargers line play is just grossly incompetent game after game.

          What I am mainly saying is that the Chargers management needs to attack the o line with the same purpose and aggression as the Bears did last off season. As in....if Hortiz is questioned again about his o line, I trust he wont say "we had 11 wins, our offensive line is fine"

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          • DerwinBosa
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Feb 2022
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            #23057
            Originally posted by electricgold View Post

            You do realize you are coming off as a champion for our current Oline and defending the worst Oline in the league. There are moves that Hortiz could have done since the Houston Texas playoff loss to make our oline better than what it is today, where it was clear as day our Oline was not good enough for anything other but a one and done playoff run! And YES during the last draft I was pining for the Chargers to draft Ozzie Trapilo, I even posted film on him predraft.

            Our current oline depth is one of the worst assemblance of journeyman olinemen ever! Ask former Chargers Db Quentin Jammer!
            Uh, actually I'm not. I'm championing Joe Hortiz for not wasting money on players who don't fit and/or aren't worth it. Would you want Will Fries on this team at five years, $88 million? Would you want Drew Dalman at three years, $42 million when he doesn't protect his quarterback much better than Bozeman does Herbert?

            Ozzy Trapilo was a guy I wanted, too. Not in the second round, though, as I thought he was going later. I seriously doubt you were on draft threads saying we needed to draft Ozzy Trapilo in the second round.

            Originally posted by electricgold View Post
            Our current oline depth is one of the worst assemblance of journeyman olinemen ever! Ask former Chargers Db Quentin Jammer!
            Are you serious? We had two All-Pro caliber offensive tackles suffer season-ending injuries, one in August and the other in October. Their backup, Trey Pipkins, started 17 games at right tackle for us in 2023. He's missed four games this year. Another backup tackle, Jamaree Salyer, has been battling injuries and missed three games this season. We've had to play fifth-, sixth-, seventh-, and eighth-string offensive tackles, we're 11-5, and you're whining about that?

            Do the Bears have fifth-, sixth-, seventh-, and eighth-string offensive tackles who have played this year? Has any other team but ours?

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            • electricgold
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Apr 2020
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              #23058
              Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

              Uh, actually I'm not. I'm championing Joe Hortiz for not wasting money on players who don't fit and/or aren't worth it. Would you want Will Fries on this team at five years, $88 million? Would you want Drew Dalman at three years, $42 million when he doesn't protect his quarterback much better than Bozeman does Herbert?

              Ozzy Trapilo was a guy I wanted, too. Not in the second round, though, as I thought he was going later. I seriously doubt you were on draft threads saying we needed to draft Ozzy Trapilo in the second round.



              Are you serious? We had two All-Pro caliber offensive tackles suffer season-ending injuries, one in August and the other in October. Their backup, Trey Pipkins, started 17 games at right tackle for us in 2023. He's missed four games this year. Another backup tackle, Jamaree Salyer, has been battling injuries and missed three games this season. We've had to play fifth-, sixth-, seventh-, and eighth-string offensive tackles, we're 11-5, and you're whining about that?

              Do the Bears have fifth-, sixth-, seventh-, and eighth-string offensive tackles who have played this year? Has any other team but ours?
              Sigh! Are you serious? Did you watch this last Texans Chargers game. Riddle me this, were both the Texans starting OT's out of that game? How many sacks did that Texans oline give up against the Chargers. How many sacks did we give up? For amusement, let's switch QB's in that game. Put Herbert behind the Texans oline and give us their QB behind our Oline. The score would have been 100 to nothing. We are putting all our hope on Herbert with a butter knife Oline two years in a row. All those fifth, sixth, seventh and eight string Olineman are mostly the players Hortiz wanted and kept on our roster. For two years now and counting. I remember once a long time ago when the San Diego Chargers had some oline issues and they got creative and brought in Olineman Stan Brock! They did that and went to the super bowl. There's always moves you can make.

              You sound like Hortiz responding to Popper after last season.

              Our only hope now is the Chargers Oline can play inspired football. With just a few better moves or trades along the Oline we could of been the top team in the AFC! Instead we are hoping and praying our Oline can get it together in the playoffs, after once again being knocked back by the Texans and their pass rush. Nothings impossible. But still.
              Last edited by electricgold; 12-31-2025, 07:57 PM.

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              • DerwinBosa
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Feb 2022
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                #23059
                Originally posted by electricgold View Post

                Sigh! Are you serious? Did you watch this last Texans Chargers game. Riddle me this, were both the Texans starting OT's out of that game? How many sacks did that Texans oline give up against the Chargers. How many sacks did we give up?

                You sound like Hortiz responding to Popper after last season.

                Our only hope now is the Chargers Oline can play inspired football. With just a few better moves or trades along the Oline we could of been the top team in the AFC! Instead we are hoping and praying our Oline can get it together in the playoffs. Nothings impossible. But still.
                We had Bobby Hart playing left tackle. Where was he on the depth chart heading into this season? And you do realize we were going up against the #1 ranked defense in the NFL, right? Danielle Hunter has 14 sacks and Will Anderson has 12. They're a hard enough matchup for teams that have no injuries on the offensive line. Houston had five sacks and two forced fumbles in a win over the Jaguars earlier this season.

                But why are you avoiding these questions I raised in my previous post?

                Would you want Will Fries on this team at five years, $88 million? Would you want Drew Dalman at three years, $42 million when he doesn't protect his quarterback much better than Bozeman does Herbert?

                I'll add another: what was your big solution to our offensive line holes in the offseason, well before Slater and Alt suffered season-ending injuries?

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                • electricgold
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Apr 2020
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                  #23060
                  Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

                  We had Bobby Hart playing left tackle. Where was he on the depth chart heading into this season? And you do realize we were going up against the #1 ranked defense in the NFL, right? Danielle Hunter has 14 sacks and Will Anderson has 12. They're a hard enough matchup for teams that have no injuries on the offensive line. Houston had five sacks and two forced fumbles in a win over the Jaguars earlier this season.

                  But why are you avoiding these questions I raised in my previous post?

                  Would you want Will Fries on this team at five years, $88 million? Would you want Drew Dalman at three years, $42 million when he doesn't protect his quarterback much better than Bozeman does Herbert?

                  I'll add another: what was your big solution to our offensive line holes in the offseason, well before Slater and Alt suffered season-ending injuries?
                  My big solution would have been not doing any of the moves Hortiz made on the Oline since he's been here, other than drafting Alt, however hindsight would rather have Bowers now as Herbert's weapon.

                  Wouldn't be too hard to improve upon every move Hortiz has made in regards to this Oline, other than drafting Alt. Cut injury prone Pipkins, cut Bozeman. not trade for Dreculus, not trade for Penning. Etc. etc. etc...

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                  • DerwinBosa
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Feb 2022
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                    #23061
                    Originally posted by electricgold View Post

                    My big solution would have been not doing any of the moves Hortiz made on the Oline since he's been here, other than drafting Alt, however hindsight would rather have Bowers now as Herbert's weapon.

                    Wouldn't be too hard to improve upon every move Hortiz has made in regards to this Oline, other than drafting Alt. Cut injury prone Pipkins, cut Bozeman. not trade for Dreculus, not trade for Penning. Etc. etc. etc...
                    So basically what you're saying is, "I don't know what I would have done. I just wouldn't have done most of what Hortiz did." You're giving absolutely no alternatives of what would have worked for our offensive line this season and moving forward. Nice job.

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                    • electricgold
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                      • Apr 2020
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                      #23062
                      Originally posted by DerwinBosa View Post

                      So basically what you're saying is, "I don't know what I would have done. I just wouldn't have done most of what Hortiz did." You're giving absolutely no alternatives of what would have worked for our offensive line this season and moving forward. Nice job.
                      dude I'm not an NFL GM. Anyone I say you're just going to look them up on PFF and say this or that or argue it's too expensive. PFF on another team in another system means nothing.

                      But as a fan playing your weird hypothetical... I would have drafted Ozzy Trapilo or Tate Ratledge instead of two WR's and sent a memo to all the NFL Gm's offering a 2026 3rd round pick for an OT the day after Slater went down and the day after Alt went down, and saved the draft pick for Dreculus. Maybe sign center Drew Dalman and not resign Bozman. You say Drew Dalman doesn't fit our O, but I bet PFF says he's better than Bozeman.

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                      • PhilaBoltster
                        Registered Charger Fan
                        • Mar 2019
                        • 558
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                        #23063
                        I think we all can agree that we want Hortiz to highly prioritize IOL this offseason. Nothing we can do about last offseason.

                        I’m advocating doubling up on it next year and try to get 3 starting caliber IOL (LG, C, RG) in FA and using the first 3 picks in the draft on the same. I know that seems like overkill, but between injuries and potential busts/disappointments I’d prefer to cover these positions as strongly as possible, both with proven veterans and youth.

                        I’m not expecting all-pros from the FA’s, just average, competent starters.

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                        • NoMoreChillies
                          Outback Goon
                          • Sep 2018
                          • 2131
                          • Australia
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                          #23064
                          Hortiz fixed the weapons issue from last season, he will fix the O-line issuse from this season.

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