Bengals at Chargers (-1.5) Pre Game Discussion (Wk 11)

[CanadianBoltFan]

Over the course of their careers, Burrow has benefitted from better OL play than Herbert. Even if Burrow's Cinn OLs have never been ranked above average, they're still better than what the Chargers had protecting Herbert.

When has Burrow had a good offensive line?

They have signed old warhorses like Orlando Brown and Trent Brown as stop gaps. They finally used a high pick on Mims. The Chase pick was controversial at the time for passing on Sewell because their line was so bad.

I dont ever recall Burrow having a good line. if you can prove otherwise, i am open to being wrong.

Just want to keep the comparison fair.

I like Herbert more, but we need to take off the homer glasses long enough to swallow that outside of Chargers fans alone, Burrow is is considered the better QB in most all NFL circles.

I believe the story is not yet fully written and think Herbert could change that, but as of this moment Herbert has not proven it to neutral observers who talk about QBs.

[el_jefe999]

If you look at just this year Bengals allow pressure on 18.7% of passes and Chargers 23.8. The chargers have clearly been inferior in pass protection. I'm ignoring sack stats as the more athletic QB will better be able to avoid having those pressures converted to sacks.

I think the whole QB comparison thing is a bit of wasted breath as once someone is drafted the key metrics are no longer individual(arm strength, 40 time etc) and becomes wins which is a team stat.

Burrow is a great QB with high level accuracy and good ability to read defenses. His athleticism and arm strength is average for an NFL QB but that's good enough to win games. I don't need to tear someone else down to feel good about the guy we have!

[sonorajim]

The stats do not bear that out. Burrow has been sacked and pressured way more than Herbert. You can say he holds on to the ball too long. But the truth is Cincy
Oline has been a disaster, leading to many injuries Burrow has had. Over the years it's true that Burrow has had a better run game, better elite receivers
and better coaching. Unfortunately that does not change the perception throughout the league and fans.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3915511/joe-burrow

Burrow- 2.8 sacks per game

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4038941/justin-herbert

Herbert - 2.1 sacks per game.

[Velo]

When has Burrow had a good offensive line?

They have signed old warhorses like Orlando Brown and Trent Brown as stop gaps. They finally used a high pick on Mims. The Chase pick was controversial at the time for passing on Sewell because their line was so bad.

I dont ever recall Burrow having a good line. if you can prove otherwise, i am open to being wrong.

Just want to keep the comparison fair.

I like Herbert more, but we need to take off the homer glasses long enough to swallow that outside of Chargers fans alone, Burrow is is considered the better QB in most all NFL circles.

I believe the story is not yet fully written and think Herbert could change that, but as of this moment Herbert has not proven it to neutral observers who talk about QBs.

The Bengals had a decent OL in 2021-22,their two best seasons in the Burrow era. I'm not saying Burrow's had elite OL protection, just better than the Chargers have provided for Herbert, which isn't saying much.

[Formula 21]

If one conducts a survey of Burrow vs Herbert, Burrow would come out on top. That's because he's had more success in the POs and has
been to the SB. These opinions can change if/when Herbert can win games in the POs. That's what it comes down to.

I never worry about Herbert. I worry about the D. When the D can consistently stop the opponent, Herbert will magically become a more highly thought of QB. Until then, he’s just a guy that loses shootouts on the last possession due to the D collapsing.

[Formula 21]

A thought on Tee Higgins. Quad injuries take time to recover from. I wouldn’t expect him to be full strength on Sunday.

[sonorajim]

I never worry about Herbert. I worry about the D. When the D can consistently stop the opponent, Herbert will magically become a more highly thought of QB. Until then, he’s just a guy that loses shootouts on the last possession due to the D collapsing.

He has the best D in the NFL. It's up to him to help himself, score some points. Our losses are 10-20, 10-17, 15-17. With an avg of less than 12 ppg on offense in our losses, I believe it's obvious what the problem was.

I was hoping for approximately 27 ppg avg on O, 17 ppg allowed on D. The D has exceeded all expectations. The O has fallen short at 20.7 ppg- but appears to be improving.

[Riverwalk]

100%. That is the reality. I have watched the big pundits this week leading up to the game comparing Herbert and Burrow. While they all like Herbert a lot, every one gives the nod to Burrow. Ultimately QBs are judged on winning , judged on big moments in big games...and Burrow has more of them.

Of course I would rather have our man Herbert but the perception around the NFL is different. I am hoping Herbert can make a statement on Sunday night , and I feel he will in the coming years with Harbaugh

Perception is everything. EVERYTHING.

Everyone saw the 2nd half lack of scoring in the past and that stink rubs off on Herbert.

You can blame it on the OC’s, HC, incapability to run, OL, defense that can’t get the other team off the field, etc….

But it is in fact a stinking stench with this team and Herbert can’t avoid smelling like shit until that changes.

Most pundits think it doesn’t matter how bad your team stinks….a true franchise QB lifts a team upon his shoulders and overcomes the deficiencies.

A franchise generational QB doesn’t blame his team for losing.

[Formula 21]

He has the best D in the NFL. It's up to him to help himself, score some points. Our losses are 10-20, 10-17, 15-17. With an avg of less than 12 ppg on offense in our losses, I believe it's obvious what the problem was.

I was hoping for approximately 27 ppg avg on O, 17 ppg allowed on D. The D has exceeded all expectations. The O has fallen short at 20.7 ppg- but appears to be improving.

If you’re not in shootouts all the time and you’re running the ball and the clock and playing good D, you’re going to have a lower scoring game. I don’t think you can separate the O from the D, they’re all in it together.

[Ghost of Quacksaw]

A franchise generational QB doesn’t blame his team for losing.

There's a franchise generational QB out there who's doing this?!?

[charger1_sj]

You are spouting complete nonsense....COMPLETE

Chips are down? When has Mahomes played a playoff game without Kelce? Herberts one playoff game he had zero run game and only Keenan Allen and scored 30 points. How many teams have scored 30 in a playoff game and lost? Burrow has never scored 30 in a playoff game. Burrow has a whopping 9 TD passes in 7 playoff games. His last playoff game he had 2 picks vs. KC. The one win in KC his defense held Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce to THREE POINTS IN THE SECOND HALF.

The Bengals are now 1-10 with Joe Burrow when trailing by one score and taking over possession with 1-8 minutes left in regulation.

Do you know what the 1 win was? This....

Give Herbert weapons like this and he has a few rings. Jamar CHase has 12 Tds of 60 or more yards already in his career. Keenan Allens longest ever was 43...LOL

Hold on there buddy. We are not discussing who we think is the better QB. My point is that when you listen to the analysts, talking heads and rankings of the top
QBs Burrow comes out on top of Herbert. Plus there is 0 question about who is #1 on the list. So you can argue all you want, it doesn't change what all
these people think.

[Velo]

Fortifying the defense for this season came at the expense of offensive firepower.

Herbert and the offense have not been as dynamic as past Herbert offenses. He lost his #1 and #2 WRs this off-season. And don't forget that this offense also lost a weapon that lead the league in scoring in back to back seasons in 2021-22 (Herbert's two best seasons) and had more yards from scrimmage in those two seasons than any other player in the league.

Herbert and the offense has had to start over from scratch with a completely revamped corps of skill players. It was always going to take some time for the offense to start humming. It's a credit to Herbert especially, but also to Roman, and players like McConkey, Dobbins and QJ that it's only taken half a season for the offense to start emerging. And the offense is only going to improve as the season progresses. The receiving corps does have three players who were first round talents (if you consider McConkey a first round talent). The ceiling should be high for this group. We haven't even seen Chark yet.

Gus Edwards returned last week and looked like the RB we were expecting, running like he did in Baltimore. He and Dobbins have the makings of a formidable RB tandem.

The defense appears to better than any of us could've imagined (we'll find out if that is fact or fiction over the next two games). If the offense continues to grow with every game, there is no telling what the Harbaugh Chargers can accomplish this season.

Yes this team still has holes, but so does every other team in the league, even the elite ones.