Chargers at Texans Game Day Thread (Wild Card Round) | Post Game Discussion

[richpjr]

For some reason I decided to rewatch the PO game. I love misery must be. The 2 bad picks Herbert threw I noticed a few things. On the one to QJ he looked to have Ladd breaking open over on his right near the goal line (single coverage). It would have been an easier throw. No need to throw across his body into double coverage. It was also 1st and 10.

On the one where he threw high to Ladd, it was like he locked and and threw it regardless. He had no pressure and he had other targets in the middle and right side. Again it was 1st and 10.

After watching the game with a clearer head that game was closer than the score. It was a 7 point game with 1 minute to go in the 3rd quarter and we had the ball.

I have thought this for a while but when there is pressure (actual or perceived) Herbert does not go threw his reads. He panics. This is the difference between him and Stroud. Stroud keep his cool and made the 2-3 explosive plays (with his arm or his legs). That was the difference really.

The throw to QJ was a bad decision. The throw to Ladd was not a bad decision, it was a bad throw because he double clutched and didn't reset and the ball was a bit high. Ladd got his hands on it so if it was a few of inches lower it would have been caught.

Herbert has been pressured many times before and has not panicked so I don't buy that as an ongoing problem that needs to be fixed. He was getting hammered all game long and with literally nobody but Ladd helping out he was clearly bothered by it. When you can't run, can't pass block and only have one player you can trust you are going to struggle.

[dmac_bolt]

The throw to QJ was a bad decision. The throw to Ladd was not a bad decision, it was a bad throw because he double clutched and didn't reset and the ball was a bit high. Ladd got his hands on it so if it was a few of inches lower it would have been caught.

Herbert has been pressured many times before and has not panicked so I don't buy that as an ongoing problem that needs to be fixed. He was getting hammered all game long and with literally nobody but Ladd helping out he was clearly bothered by it. When you can't run, can't pass block and only have one player you can trust you are going to struggle.

he didn't handle the game as well as he can. Perfect world he would play better. I'm sure it was frustrating, he has to learn from the experience. I'm not ready to buy the theory that he can't win a big game yet, though - he's still my guy.

[Boltjolt]

The throw to QJ was a bad decision. The throw to Ladd was not a bad decision, it was a bad throw because he double clutched and didn't reset and the ball was a bit high. Ladd got his hands on it so if it was a few of inches lower it would have been caught.

Herbert has been pressured many times before and has not panicked so I don't buy that as an ongoing problem that needs to be fixed. He was getting hammered all game long and with literally nobody but Ladd helping out he was clearly bothered by it. When you can't run, can't pass block and only have one player you can trust you are going to struggle.

Just watched Chase Daniel video of this game. He said Herb double clutched because Lad was supposed to run a 5 yard curl and he went 7 and Herb wanted to throw it sooner but had to wait then a DL got too close. Bad footwork on the INT throw to Dissley but he still should of caught it.

[powderblueboy]

Yes, that is exactly what happened. They completely abandoned what worked in the last 6 weeks and went with the vanilla, Ravens style that never worked for this team. By the time they started to realize that wasn't going to work, the Texans were punishing on defense and Herbert was completely rattled.

Regarding Herbert, if you re-watch the game, he consistently failed to work through his reads, he was not patient, he failed to use his legs, and he never used his eyes to move the defense. I also saw very little from him as far as audibles, moving personnel, making pressure reads, etc. Chase Daniel showed (some of) the all 22, and Herbert's footwork was an absolutely nightmare. I truly believe the pressure of the moment and the game got to him. Will more talent fix these problems? Will he find more confidence in his game in these big moments? Charger fans will hope so. But when a player's fundamentals breakdown during a game like that, it means he is mentally losing -- and that is not a good thing you want to see from your QB. Its the kind of thing you see from the Josh Rosens of the world, not a supposed franchise QB.

I have to agree with pretty much all of this.
His footwork in the pocket under pressure sometimes is not good, but the dude is 6'6" ... so it won't be Burrowesque or Mahomesian.

The idea that he doesn't handle big game pressure well is certainly justified.
Its something he has to prove otherwise, at this point.

Sometimes, the moment does seem too big for him.

We saw it against Cincy this year .... a game they probably should have lost. Things change for the worse and Herbert goes into a mental tailspin that he can't pull out of.
It's not losing, its the incapability of his to make a big play to stem the tide, even if its just converting on a 3rd down to keep the offense out there,
instead of the total collapse. The offense just continues in lethargy collectively far too long, too often, in important games against top level competition with Herbert as QB.

Sure, surround Herbert with studs ..... invest in the offense

[Boltgang74]

Herb ain't the problem.The problem was the Offense as a whole.One good receiver and a stud QB gettin hammered all game ain't gonna work.Herb ain't a magician that can make the run game work,the o line block,and receivers get open and Catch.Ridiculous to act like Herb is the issue.Harbaugh knows the truth.This Offense is just shit right now.Hopefully they figure this thing out in the off season.

[dmac_bolt]

Herb ain't the problem.The problem was the Offense as a whole.One good receiver and a stud QB gettin hammered all game ain't gonna work.Herb ain't a magician that can make the run game work,the o line block,and receivers get open and Catch.Ridiculous to act like Herb is the issue.Harbaugh knows the truth.This Offense is just shit right now.Hopefully they figure this thing out in the off season.

we can all agree Herbie had some bad plays, no doubt about it. but cmon everyone - the big truth of the Charger Offense has been slapping us in the face all year long; it has been glaringly obvious and its not Herbert. Any situation that requires the QB to be absolutely perfect is a guaranteed failure before the whistle. Lets not waste his career like the Chargers wasted Fouts and Rivers, and stop blaming the best player on the team for not being perfect. nobody is. PFF scores for the game, fwiw, he had a higher grade than Stroud. Stroud had a run game that got better through the game, a bit better weapons, and a bit more time in the pocket. Back in the first quarter when he had none of that, he did nothing.

Our OL went from bad to complete shit in the second half. Someone posted the PFF grades at half and then the overall game grades. Those motherfuckers were striving for single fucking digits in the game. QJ had a shit game. Dissly had his worst game. JK had a couple great runs in the firrst quarter and then the run game was completely shut off. Who else ... I can't name a single guy besides Ladd that had a good game - no QB can win like that.

Herbie will learn from where he can improve - and hopefully not listen too much to all of the armchair assholes that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. Dude is gonna be stronger, meaner, and more focused and dialed than ever - i can see it

[Formula 21]

There’s about 10 things to hate about this offense and Herbie ain’t one of them..

[CanadianBoltFan]

we can all agree Herbie had some bad plays, no doubt about it. but cmon everyone - the big truth of the Charger Offense has been slapping us in the face all year long; it has been glaringly obvious and its not Herbert. Any situation that requires the QB to be absolutely perfect is a guaranteed failure before the whistle. Lets not waste his career like the Chargers wasted Fouts and Rivers, and stop blaming the best player on the team for not being perfect. nobody is. PFF scores for the game, fwiw, he had a higher grade than Stroud. Stroud had a run game that got better through the game, a bit better weapons, and a bit more time in the pocket. Back in the first quarter when he had none of that, he did nothing.

Our OL went from bad to complete shit in the second half. Someone posted the PFF grades at half and then the overall game grades. Those motherfuckers were striving for single fucking digits in the game. QJ had a shit game. Dissly had his worst game. JK had a couple great runs in the firrst quarter and then the run game was completely shut off. Who else ... I can't name a single guy besides Ladd that had a good game - no QB can win like that.

Herbie will learn from where he can improve - and hopefully not listen too much to all of the armchair assholes that couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. Dude is gonna be stronger, meaner, and more focused and dialed than ever - i can see it

Herbert is not The problem. He is a good QB.

But he has to be better in big games and big moments. He made bad decisions, he got rattled...and I cant figure out how he didnt attempt one single rushing attempt againt a Texan defense that gave up runs to QBs all season long. Just not good enough

He has handled the rush before, as recently as week 16 but it overwhelmed him. What is missing in Herbert's career 5 years in is those franchise QB moments where you put the team on your back and turn the tide of a big game. The QBs in the 50 million a year stratosphere do those kinds of things.

Herbert is still my guy too, but at this moment in time I am going to be a bit less of a fanboy and judge him more objectively. The excuses are old. Yes he needs upgrades and better receivers, but that does not change that Herbert played the worst game of his career, at the worst possible time.

[Boltgang74]

Maybe if anyone but Ladd caught some balls the tide would have turned.Herb can't soar like an eagle when he's surrounded by turkeys.

[wu-dai clan]

If anything, we are being too defensive of Herbert. He is tough and intelligent.

Vision, decision making and touch must improve.

Justin has the football in his hands and the option to kill plays sent in by GRo, btw with input from Day and Trestman.

The cadence and tempo can often be too mechanical and robotic.

[Boltx]

I have to agree with pretty much all of this.
His footwork in the pocket under pressure sometimes is not good, but the dude is 6'6" ... so it won't be Burrowesque or Mahomesian.

The idea that he doesn't handle big game pressure well is certainly justified.
Its something he has to prove otherwise, at this point.

Sometimes, the moment does seem too big for him.

We saw it against Cincy this year .... a game they probably should have lost. Things change for the worse and Herbert goes into a mental tailspin that he can't pull out of.
It's not losing, its the incapability of his to make a big play to stem the tide, even if its just converting on a 3rd down to keep the offense out there,
instead of the total collapse. The offense just continues in lethargy collectively far too long, too often, in important games against top level competition with Herbert as QB.

Sure, surround Herbert with studs ..... invest in the offense

Well, he won the Rose Bowl. He also played lights out in the 2021 elimination game against the Raiders. So he can perform in big games. But also sometimes disappears for stretches.

Harbaugh needs to find a way to unlock more out of him. The talent, toughness, leadership is there. But that will be the narrative until proven otherwise. It sucks that the knives are out for him - a truly humble athlete that is loved by his teammates. He deserves better, but such is pro sports especially when you are QB1.

But yes - we need to also make his life easier. Get weapons out there that can create on their own. So that Herbert doesn't have to be 100% perfect on every play, every throw, etc.

I believe Harbaugh will take care of the rest. But FFS surround this guy with playmakers. Ladd is a great start, obviously, but we need more. Way more.

[ShockNAwe]

Yes, that is exactly what happened. They completely abandoned what worked in the last 6 weeks and went with the vanilla, Ravens style that never worked for this team. By the time they started to realize that wasn't going to work, the Texans were punishing on defense and Herbert was completely rattled.

Regarding Herbert, if you re-watch the game, he consistently failed to work through his reads, he was not patient, he failed to use his legs, and he never used his eyes to move the defense. I also saw very little from him as far as audibles, moving personnel, making pressure reads, etc. Chase Daniel showed (some of) the all 22, and Herbert's footwork was an absolutely nightmare. I truly believe the pressure of the moment and the game got to him. Will more talent fix these problems? Will he find more confidence in his game in these big moments? Charger fans will hope so. But when a player's fundamentals breakdown during a game like that, it means he is mentally losing -- and that is not a good thing you want to see from your QB. Its the kind of thing you see from the Josh Rosens of the world, not a supposed franchise QB.

Could not agree more. You can almost see in the flow of the game when he starts to spiral. The Chargers Oline is not the worst (not the best either). Most teams have challenges along the oline. Every year we say "yeah but the Oline is crap". I get it work is needed there but he has to make a play even when one is not there to be considered special or elite. he is being paid as such. Example is JJ McCarthy in the national championship game. Only leading by 7 in the 2nd half at his own 10yrd line. The offense was stagnant for most of the 2nd half. On 3rd and long, JJ tucked the ball on sprinted straight up the field for a first down and that turned the tied. I mention this as it did not require anything from his Oline or his receivers. JJ put the team on his back and took charge. This is something we must see more of from Justin. All the top 5 QB's in the league do.