OT: serious dog dilemma

[Boltx]

Fleet...feel free to move this to the OT section, just wanted to get some initial responses here before it gets buried away down there.

I'll try to keep this short: I have an 8 year old German Shepherd/lab mix who has always been kind of a skittish, anxious dog even as a puppy despite numerous training sessions and repeated socialization. He has essentially lived with my mom and been her dog since he was about 3 years old. Over the past 3-4 years he has gotten increasingly aggressive towards other dogs and strangers, especially if they come into the home to the point where he can't be allowed around them. He once nipped my uncle's hand a few years ago and last year nipped my mother-in-law's arm when she abruptly walked through the front door of my mom's place and it set him off (not excusing the behavior, just giving context). We have unfortunately tolerated this behavior because he is fine with me, my mom, my wife and the kids.

This past weekend my wife and I were helping to move my mom and when we entered her old place to start packing up boxes, he started to go after my wife but I was able to grab him. This was distressing because he has always been affectionate with her, but I'm not sure if the stress of the move or our sudden arrival set him off. For the first time ever I am starting to wonder how safe he is with even close family. Our three kids spend a lot of time at my mom's (she babysits) and they have all grown up around the dog without issues. But I also never envisioned him wanting to go after my wife, who he has known/loved since he was a puppy.

Needless to say, my wife and mother-in-law don't want him around the kids, want him gone. To top it off, he has bladder stones for which he is on a special diet. I mention that because I figure the aggression + medical issues will make it difficult to find him a new home. My wife even threw out euthanasia, which took me by surprise.

I am meeting with the vet in a couple of days to discuss therapy + medicine, but what do you guys think? Does he sound like a lost cause? Does the history of two bites (both non-serious injuries) basically condemn him? Don't get me wrong...the safety of my kids is #1, I just want to hear objective opinions. Thanks.

[QSmokey]

Hi Darius,

You're in a tough situation, no doubt. My (late) Golden Retriever, Kodi, became aggressive about the same age (earlier, really) with other dogs, and we had to keep a very close eye on him in his later years, including having to result to a (comfortable) muzzle in certain situations. The big difference in my situation, as opposed to yours, is that Kodi was NEVER aggressive with people; just the opposite. In fact, he was even able to get used to MOST other dogs, if we introduced them slowly.

My theory about Kodi, and given some credence by a couple of animal behaviorists I spoke with about his behavior, is that he was making 'pre-emptive' strikes, due to the fact that he had developed arthritis in one of his legs and felt threatened and vulnerable. He was on meds for the condition, but this didn't totally alleviate the problem (as I said).

From my (unprofessional) view, there are several things working against you here: First, your pup has always been "skittish/anxious"; a scared dog is a dangerous dog. Second, he is compromised by his illness, and may, similar to Kodi, feel particularly vulnerable, resulting in a need to lash out. Third, his illness *may* be making his emotional condition worse (is he on meds for it?). These are questions for your vet, of course; and it wouldn't hurt to try and get a free consultation with an animal behaviorist (not "just" a trainer). Keep in mind that any behavioral treatment you may receive from a specialist is going to be costly. There may also be medications - doggie Prozac, believe it or not - or other anxiety medication that might be worth a try.

You are correct, unfortunately, to assume he would be difficult - if not impossible - to re-home. His age, size, and history all working mightily against him. You may try contacting a German Shepard-specific rescue group for help. There is one here in San Diego that I know of (I don't know where you live). These organizations have a history of taking in difficult dogs and working to find them a good, safe home.

It may be that your pup, at this stage in his life, needs to be in a family without kids, or a lot of activity (that seems to be exacerbating his problems). As you know, a dog that size can do considerable damage to a child; even a adult. The unpredictability of a child's actions - sudden movements, loud noise, etc - could trigger a much more serious incident. Which will leave you with both a traumatized/injured (perhaps seriously) child *and* a sure decision to have your pup euthanized. You want to avoid that at all costs.

My advice - and take it for what it's worth - if for you to have a lengthy discussion with the vet, of course, during your appointment. As I said, contacting a behaviorist for a consultation could also prove beneficial. And I'd also purchase one of the more gentle muzzles and put it on your pup when he is in particularly stressful situations (or just around other people). They make muzzles which prevent biting, but also allow the dog to breathe normally, drink, and even eat in some cases (hand-fed treats). Worth the piece of mind, in my opinion.

I hope you found this helpful. Again, keep in mind that I am *not* a professional; my advice stems from years of owning/fostering dogs, and having to deal with many different situations involving both inter-species co-existence (cats/small rodents) as well as dog-to-dog interactions.

Keep me informed as to how it goes.

Regards,
Jim

[Millionaire Wussy]

That's a great post, Q.

[Heatmiser]

BoltX - I am a dog lover. Have had dogs my whole live (over 50 years and that is all I will say). As hard as this is to hear -- you have to get rid of the dog. Don't wait until it bites one of your kids. I have been down that path. And the rehabilitation thing does not work with most dogs, but especially it does not work with dogs who are in pain. (which sounds like is case for your dog). Where I live (Ohio) there are foster shelters. You disclose the whole story and they foster the dog and work to find it a home. The dog I currently have (Lab-Pit mix) came from one of those places. Her problem is she gets so excited that she wets herself when she meets someone new. That is her only issue. They told me when I said I was interested in her and I work around it. Other than that she is a perfect, loving, protective, dog. Point is, don't assume euthanasia is the only path forward. But I do strongly encourage you to remove the dog from your home and get another dog, as hard as that can be.

Also am not a professional. Just a guy who loves dogs, loves kids, and considers all Charger fans my brothers (and gets yelled at by the wife plenty).

Good luck.

TG

[Fleet]

Medical Marijuana. Maybe a high CBD edible thats not chocolate.

[oneinchpunch]

Man, tough situation. Our dog is a mean little jerk he hates other dogs and is overly protective of his home and family when people visit. He's still young and my wife wanted to re-home him but that would've crushed my kids. So we decided to medicate him. We have even looked into the CBD's that Fleet mentions but the medication is helping for now. I should mention that he is a Jack Russell mix/Shelter Dog so he still bounces off the walls and still goes nuts if there is a dog anywhere near him but he has gotten better around people.

Good Luck. It's a tough call

[madcaplaughs]

I too love dogs. I lost my beloved Labrador a couple months ago. It was a quick thing where she presumably ate something toxic on a walk. I week later she hadn't eaten, and I knew it was time. It broke my heart, but it was time. It's really tough, but we think of dogs as family, we also have to remember that they are animals. Animals are inherently unpredictable. If the dog has a history of biting, it will do it again. It may be a family member, or possibly someone else if it gets out. Sometimes you have to do what hurts to do the right thing. I apologize if this is over the top. All the best to you and your family in this matter.

[Big Dog]

If you want to try to save him, you can try a dog trainer whisperer but if that dont work, for the sake of your kids you just can't chance it.

You know how you will feel if anything happens, and if you have girls OMG ... with boys a scar or two is no biggie, but hell no, if you have girls.

i worked for the SPCA for a number of years and they might be able to place him in a home with some old single guy who can handle him, especially if you offer to pay the adoption fees so that he is "free".

PS - And at his age neutering won't help much to gentle him either.

PSS - And if anything does happen, your MIL gets to bring it up at every holiday event and family gathering. And you can't put her down either ... although maybe in Oregon ...

[Millionaire Wussy]

I just have to say that if Prozac can be so helpful for my issues then I would have to try it out on my dog - doggie version as Q noted of course.

[floydefisher]

See if you can get on this show...free help plus appearance fees if it doesn't bother you.

[Boltx]

Thanks everybody for all the responses (especially good to hear from you, Jim).

So I went to the vet the other day and he was gracious enough to talk to me for a good 30 minutes beyond the actual visit encounter. Based on the complete history I gave him, he really thinks his protective instinct for the home is in a bit of overdrive (both prior incidents were in the home). Why, we don't know. He is encouraged by the fact that outside of the home, the dog is pretty mild mannered. He goes to dog parks, the groomer, and even at the vet the other day he was fine and had no problem with strangers being near him or even petting him. But of course the fact that he has bitten once, does raise the risk, especially around kids.

In my heart of hearts...I don't think he would ever do anything with the kids...he has been around all three of them as babies and seen each one grow up now (ages 5, 2.5, 1). But of course I am biased. And yet I could see a scenario where he gets riled up by a visitor at the door and one of the kids is just at the wrong place at the wrong time and he mistakenly takes it out on one of them.

The plan we came up with:

1). First things first, he needs surgery to remove his bladder stones. The medical diet did not help dissolve them. Even if we eventually end up re-homing him, taking care of this medical issue will make it easier to find a new home.
2). Behaviorist
3). Medication (after seeing behaviorist first)

I think this is a reasonable approach. Even if we wanted to re-home him immediately...it wouldn't happen overnight. So at least we can address his medical issues and give the behavior modification a shot in the meantime. I didn't bring it up, but never once did the vet even hint at euthanasia. He actually seemed kinda surprised that I was considering re-homing him. He says he knows "what a true vicious dog looks like." Whatever that means.

I'll keep you all posted. Again, thanks for all the comments.

[SDFan]

Fleet...feel free to move this to the OT section, just wanted to get some initial responses here before it gets buried away down there.

I'll try to keep this short: I have an 8 year old German Shepherd/lab mix who has always been kind of a skittish, anxious dog even as a puppy despite numerous training sessions and repeated socialization. He has essentially lived with my mom and been her dog since he was about 3 years old. Over the past 3-4 years he has gotten increasingly aggressive towards other dogs and strangers, especially if they come into the home to the point where he can't be allowed around them. He once nipped my uncle's hand a few years ago and last year nipped my mother-in-law's arm when she abruptly walked through the front door of my mom's place and it set him off (not excusing the behavior, just giving context). We have unfortunately tolerated this behavior because he is fine with me, my mom, my wife and the kids.

This past weekend my wife and I were helping to move my mom and when we entered her old place to start packing up boxes, he started to go after my wife but I was able to grab him. This was distressing because he has always been affectionate with her, but I'm not sure if the stress of the move or our sudden arrival set him off. For the first time ever I am starting to wonder how safe he is with even close family. Our three kids spend a lot of time at my mom's (she babysits) and they have all grown up around the dog without issues. But I also never envisioned him wanting to go after my wife, who he has known/loved since he was a puppy.

Needless to say, my wife and mother-in-law don't want him around the kids, want him gone. To top it off, he has bladder stones for which he is on a special diet. I mention that because I figure the aggression + medical issues will make it difficult to find him a new home. My wife even threw out euthanasia, which took me by surprise.

I am meeting with the vet in a couple of days to discuss therapy + medicine, but what do you guys think? Does he sound like a lost cause? Does the history of two bites (both non-serious injuries) basically condemn him? Don't get me wrong...the safety of my kids is #1, I just want to hear objective opinions. Thanks.

have You and your wife ever taken the dog to basic obedience class since you became the full time parents? We have been adopting rescued Rottweilers for over 20 years and most have some degree of mental quirks and the 1st order of business is always the basic training so the dogs know their place and expectations in our family/pack structure. We currently have a 9.5 year old boy who was smacked around and living in the wrong environment his 1st couple years. We have had him 6 years now and he still doesn't trust most men and gets scared / nervous when people come inside "his" house. We solved that by settling in our guests 1st before letting the dogs come say hello to everyone at their own pace. Usually he just sniffs everyone and gets a few pets and goes off to do his normal stuff. They key is not to make him feel backed into a corner by intruders in his home environment that is supposed to be a safe place for him. We don't have kids, but maybe keeping the dog separated and having adults greet guests at the door and get everyone settled would improve your situation. Good luck

[Millionaire Wussy]

BoltX, if you do end up using doggie-Prozac you might need to know that a side effect is trouble breathing. That lasts for a few days. At least in my case it did. I'm fine now. I don't know if the doggie Prozac has the same side effects as the people Prozac. But as a dog owner I would definitely be looking for signs right away to see if your dog can handle that initial problem side effect. Just know that it does go away. But it sure sucks at first.