The defense & Pagano

[Mister Hoarse]

The Ingram injury is a killer. And a huge setback for his own development.

[Grinners]

We should be okay if the pass rush puts a little more pressure on the QB!

1. Upfront Keyes and Liegut need to continue to show improvement which I am confident they will, if Geather the undrated rookie can provide relief in place of Thomas because big boys need breathers to be affective we will be good. Depth is a concern

2. Linebackers should be solid Butler & Te'o should be solid on run downs, outside Johnson & Freeney should be solid, Freeney needs to get us at least 8 sacks. English & DJ Smith provide depth.

3. I think if we get a little more pressure we will see an improvement. Cox>Jammer; Jammer has aged, Wright>Cason; Cason had talent, but never consistent or in the right position to make a play. Weddle is a Stud, our other safety ????? Gilchrest (unknown at the position in the PROs) and Taylor (unknown due to injury). Our nickel back should be solid even though I project the rookie Williams to be that.

Good points here but I do not see Freeney starting in this D and will be more dedicated as a rush LBer. Kinda like unleash the hounds thing! I think Smith or English will start and hope English can finally earn his pay check. We will know soon enough.
I don't see our CBs playing the run D as well as Jammer did, but they should be an improvement over Cason against the run. So that is a push, one side improves and the other declines.

[Steve]

Good point about the Safety, but if he is in position to make play whether it is a tackle, or deflection or he is covering his area so good the QB is going another direction. Look how many times Bigby name shows up compared to Weddle, and often Bigby was late on his assignments. I agreee about the pressuer or lack of pressure, but we were not playing man to man so how do you give up big plays like Jammer and Cason did. Jammer father time caught up with him, and Cason just not having good awarness. Good CB's can help a not so great pass rush.

My point about the stats sheet is that doesn't tell you who was at fault. As far as Bigby, you don't need a stat sheet to tell you he struggled. He did OK in run support when it came time for him to step up and fill, but his tackling was inconsistent. His coverage was not that great either, especially as a deep S, but that isn't a good thing for a former CB.

Jammer was sort of up and down. I don't think the stats really tell the story with him. We put our CB out on and island, and really don't give them a lot of help. If we want our CB to stop giving up short passes, then we have to give them more help. That generally means more passes given up in other areas. Remember, PFF had Spikes ranked as one of the top coverage LB in all of football last year. I don't think too many of us think he really did that on his own. I sure don't. The other thing to note about the guys in PFF top DB, is that all of the CB were playing for teams that play very safe coverage, with a lot of cover 2 (deep S help). And they tended to give up a lot of passes inside to their LB.

We can argue about Jammer losing to father time, but even if he hasn't yet, it is only a matter of time. And that is why he is gone. Cason I felt like played really well down the stretch. But he was awful early, and that up and down season sums up his career so far.

Good CB can help a so-so pass rush, but in the end good CB are never going to be a replacement for a pass rush. Even a so-so NFL QB can shred a good secondary if they have time. I do think Cox is going to be a solid guy replacing Jammer, and that if he can stay healthy, then Wright is a big upgrade over Cason. But neither is going to help all that much without the edge rushers. No matter how good or bad other players perform, I think the key is getting Williams some reps. I think long term, whether it is inside or out, we need to spend a least 1 draft pick per year so that we have guys in the pipeline and depth.

If I was pagano, I would use Freeney like we used to use Barnes. Plays in the 4 man line, with English, Williams and JJ taking reps opposite him, and Reyes and Liuget inside. In the base D, I think the only choice is English at WILL and JJ at SAM.

[Boltacious Ta Ta's]

I think Thomas Keiser will play big this year. I believe his elbow injury is fully healed...and he is coming in to that ever productive 3rd year of being a pro.

[Mister Hoarse]

Time to tell this elbow from this Keister

[Den60]

Pagano had better talent and depth last year. His brother couldn't get shit for production out of Freeney and now we are supposed to think he is going to do well here? When it comes right down to it, you have to get pressure on the QB to be successful in this league. I don't see us having the horses to do that. And when you look at the secondary you see too many questions of durability and experience.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

His Brothers team went to the post season...

Just sayin.

[RobH]

Pagano had better talent and depth last year. His brother couldn't get shit for production out of Freeney and now we are supposed to think he is going to do well here? When it comes right down to it, you have to get pressure on the QB to be successful in this league. I don't see us having the horses to do that. And when you look at the secondary you see too many questions of durability and experience.

Are you taking his high ankle sprain into consideration here? Because at the end of the season, when he was able to move around more effectively, his stats looked more like his regular self.

[Big Dog]

Pagano is worth a second look and I like his style of defense and he did well developing the kids last year.

DE's are great A+ guys both Luiget and Reyes and oops there is nobody else ...
NT is big ?? to me, will Teletubby Thomas big more consistent and/or is Geather got the family DL genes ... big downgrade over Franklin and Garay and Martin (i know Martin was emergency NT only)

ILB will be A+ great, barring injury Teo is the real deal and may even challenge for DROY and drive the price for Butler down (I'm thinking SF 49er good at ILB)

OLB Freeney will be hand on the ground and/or standup rushing QB every time and 0 plays dropping into coverage, we sure needed Ingram he has star potiential (as in Weddle like), run defense from Johnson etc will be A+, pass defense C- and pass rush C straight up, I fear.

CB's - Wright will get schooled early but reminds me, in terms of athleticism, Cromartie and should get stronger as the season goes on, provided he can keep his confidence up (Cason struggled with this at times), Cox should be fine.

SS - is a concern, Gilchrist strikes me as a slow CB rather than a true SS type and the last two holdover SS draft picks Taylor and Stuckey have both been too injured to tell. Although others are high on Taylor, I kind of like Stuckey (this situation strikes me as Gilchrist over Wright at CB in their rookie year) I like his ST play and I think that once he gets on the field and a chance to play, that he will play better at SS than he practices, some guys have a nose for the ball and are hard workers that make up for not being as athletic as Taylor.

[Beerman]

Pagano did some good things particularly putting players in a position to cause turnovers.

My main issue is still his blitzing. He kept trying to single up our OLB's by blitzing inside and setting up 1 on 1 match ups, but they just repeatedly failed since our guys weren't winning the 1 on 1's on the outside. I'd much rather see him go away from using inside blitzing to bringing our guys in off the edge behind the OLB's. If he does do inside blitzes, he needs to delay them or teach Donald Butler some pass rush moves since he should of had more than 3 sacks with the amount of times he blitzed.

I see Philips and Dwight as a wash to be honest, so I'm not expecting the world from our pass rush. There's some potential if English develops finally, but I'm not holding my breath. The greatest impact to an improved pass rush will have to come from Liuget and Reyes. They have to be disruptive and push that pocket for us to improve on our sack ranking (tied with 3 other teams at 11).

I like the move of Gilchrist to SS mainly because it should improve our 3rd down pass coverage. Bigby was just bad in space. Ideally Pagano will be able to press now that he has Cox and Wright on the outside. Both have the speed and quickness to be able to cover WR's in short spaces. Our NB is the position I'm most concerned with and I'm hoping Steve Williams is a quick study, because he's likely the default starter.

Overall the defenses team speed has been greatly increased, which was a big issue last season. Like it's been mentioned, we have no depth, but our starting lineup is a significant upgrade to last year's group IMO (despite the inexperience).

[Den60]

Are you taking his high ankle sprain into consideration here? Because at the end of the season, when he was able to move around more effectively, his stats looked more like his regular self.

At his age are you expecting him to go through the season without health issues? When it comes right down to it, his team didn't want him back (and rumor has it they went to the playoffs) nor did any other team in the league - until we got desperate - and teams are always on the lookout for someone who can get to the QB.

[Den60]

Pagano did some good things particularly putting players in a position to cause turnovers.

My main issue is still his blitzing. He kept trying to single up our OLB's by blitzing inside and setting up 1 on 1 match ups, but they just repeatedly failed since our guys weren't winning the 1 on 1's on the outside. I'd much rather see him go away from using inside blitzing to bringing our guys in off the edge behind the OLB's. If he does do inside blitzes, he needs to delay them or teach Donald Butler some pass rush moves since he should of had more than 3 sacks with the amount of times he blitzed.

I see Philips and Dwight as a wash to be honest, so I'm not expecting the world from our pass rush. There's some potential if English develops finally, but I'm not holding my breath. The greatest impact to an improved pass rush will have to come from Liuget and Reyes. They have to be disruptive and push that pocket for us to improve on our sack ranking (tied with 3 other teams at 11).

I like the move of Gilchrist to SS mainly because it should improve our 3rd down pass coverage. Bigby was just bad in space. Ideally Pagano will be able to press now that he has Cox and Wright on the outside. Both have the speed and quickness to be able to cover WR's in short spaces. Our NB is the position I'm most concerned with and I'm hoping Steve Williams is a quick study, because he's likely the default starter.

Overall the defenses team speed has been greatly increased, which was a big issue last season. Like it's been mentioned, we have no depth, but our starting lineup is a significant upgrade to last year's group IMO (despite the inexperience).

A wash. Well at the money we are paying Freeney in comparison to what Denver is paying for Phillips I can tell you whom I think got taken to the cleaners.