Defense, defense, defense

[Fleet]

I think its pretty important to realize that in most cases teams player rankings are often very different than the consensus rankings. I wouldn't be using other websites rankings for a gauge on who is the BPA. Use your own. If you think at the time Jenkins was the better BPA than argue that. Maybe state why he was the BPA at the time. The thing is i dont think it really matters...because if we were lucky enough to have our team staff posting here at the blues i think the argument of who was BPA would start and end with their rankings. At least i would value them over anyone here.

TT when asked about the OL rankings and if he reached for Fluker he responded with "whos' rankings"..."only our rankings matter to us"

The other thing is that TT has stated that he dosnt rank players based on need. He said the draft board is a living and breathing entity that tells him who to take after his players based on overall ranking come off the board. So Allen was most likely not even based on need but by simply being the best player they had on the board at the time. And with that its a clue as to how they valued Allen over Jenkins.

Im glad we have a staff that at this point looks to be getting evaluations and rankings right. Because just look at how they paid off already.

[Yubaking]

I think its pretty important to realize that in most cases teams player rankings are often very different than the consensus rankings. I wouldn't be using other websites rankings for a gauge on who is the BPA. Use your own. If you think at the time Jenkins was the better BPA than argue that. Maybe state why he was the BPA at the time. The thing is i dont think it really matters...because if we were lucky enough to have our team staff posting here at the blues i think the argument of who was BPA would start and end with their rankings. At least i would value them over anyone here.

TT when asked about the OL rankings and if he reached for Fluker he responded with "whos' rankings"..."only our rankings matter to us"

The other thing is that TT has started that he dosnt rank players based on need. He said the draft board is a living and breathing entity that tells him who to take after his players based on overall ranking come off the board. So Allen was most likely not even based on need but by simply being the best player they had on the board at the time. And with that its a clue as to how they valued Allen over Jenkins.

Im glad we have a staff that at this point looks to be getting evaluations and rankings right. Because just look at how they paid off already.

My view is that the players were very close. It is difficult to compare players at different positions to decide BPA. So my evidence for the proposition that the players (Allen, Jenkins) were close is 1) there was no consensus as to which was better and 2) they were actually chosen within 7 spots of each other.

In that scenario, I think we should have gone with Jenkins, who was the position of apparent need at that time. But that said, it really did work out very well for us that we took Allen. I have no complaints about Allen.

We do need to fix the NT position, though.

[Boltjolt]

Not just in my mind. There was split in the expert draftniks, no consensus at all as to which player should be ranked higher. This is further confirmed by the fact that the two players were taken within 7 picks of each other.

Usually, a rookie WR will contribute more than a rookie NT. No surprise there at all.

:lol: If Keenan didnt have the knee issue, he would of went well ahead of Jenkins. No draftnik had Jenkins ranked ahead of Keenan. Maybe Walter Football but he is no draftnik. Obviously you were high on Jenkins or just high on us getting a NT , which i agree we needed but i wasnt real high on Jenkins.

[Yubaking]

:lol: If Keenan didnt have the knee issue, he would of went well ahead of Jenkins. No draftnik had Jenkins ranked ahead of Keenan. Maybe Walter Football but he is no draftnik.

Actually several did and several had it the other way around. Also, I concede the point that if the facts were different (Allen didn't have a knee issue), the facts would not be the same (Allen would have been rated higher).

[Fleet]

My view is that the players were very close. It is difficult to compare players at different positions to decide BPA. So my evidence for the proposition that the players (Allen, Jenkins) were close is 1) there was no consensus as to which was better and 2) they were actually chosen within 7 spots of each other.

In that scenario, I think we should have gone with Jenkins, who was the position of apparent need at that time. But that said, it really did work out very well for us that we took Allen. I have no complaints about Allen.

We do need to fix the NT position, though.

I personally take my thinking out of it and go with staff trust in regards to player rankings. I have my own rankings but they simply dont matter. And arguing them here as if my rankings mean something...even based on the fact that i have zero professional scouting experience....just makes me look like a fool imo. Who am i to claim that our staffs rankings are inaccurate when put up against my own or even other draftnik rankings. In the end they wont matter because the team gets the final say on rankings based on countless hours of scouting....flying around and meeting these players...and kicking the so called tires. This first year maybe there were more arm chair GMs than normal simply because of it being TTs first draft and really nothing else to judge him on..but after seeing what he did i wont disagree when he takes a player thats not the player i felt we should take.

Listen to Telesco at minute 8:30. He basically says outsider rankings dont matter to him. Not sure why so many here think they are the concrete rankings and that teams should be drafting according to them. Thats crazy to me.

http://www.chargers.com/multimedia/videos/416-Tom-Telesco/a963ae25-7f3b-4f08-8936-b89c9349e220

And i agree we do need a NT. I think we do something in free agency. Counting on Nix to be there is a waste of time. If hes there and the team likes him then pull the trigger. But hes pretty much the only true NT in the draft and to think we are the only team needing a player like him is a mistake. Even if hes there and we dont take him...i will trust the plan and the TT obviously got the best player on his draft board. Whoever that is. I think his draft pick success already makes that an easy decsion on my part.

I dont think the value and talent level between the 2 players Allen/Jenkins is even close. I didnt before we made the picks. I had Allen as a 1st round caliber player.

[Boltjolt]

Actually several did and several had it the other way around. Also, I concede the point that if the facts were different (Allen didn't have a knee issue), the facts would not be the same (Allen would have been rated higher).

Dont buy it at all. I would need to see it.

[Boltjolt]

I personally take my thinking out of it and go with staff trust in regards to player rankings. I have my own rankings but they simply dont matter. And arguing them here as if my rankings mean something...even based on the fact that i have zero professional scouting experience....just makes me look like a fool imo. Who am i to claim that our staffs rankings are inaccurate when put up against my own or even other draftnik rankings. In the end they wont matter because the team gets the final say on rankings based on countless hours of scouting....flying around and meeting these players...and kicking the so called tires. This first year maybe there were more arm chair GMs than normal simply because of it being TTs first draft and really nothing else to judge him on..but after seeing what he did i wont disagree when he takes a player thats not the player i felt we should take.

Listen to Telesco at minute 8:30. He basically says outsider rankings dont matter to him. Not sure why so many here think they are the concrete rankings and that teams should be drafting according to them. Thats crazy to me.

http://www.chargers.com/multimedia/videos/416-Tom-Telesco/a963ae25-7f3b-4f08-8936-b89c9349e220

And i agree we do need a NT. I think we do something in free agency. Counting on Nix to be there is a waste of time. If hes there and the team likes him then pull the trigger. But hes pretty much the only true NT in the draft and to think we are the only team needing a player like him is a mistake. Even if hes there and we dont take him...i will trust the plan and the TT obviously got the best player on his draft board. Whoever that is. I think his draft pick success already makes that an easy decsion on my part.

I dont think the value and talent level between the 2 players Allen/Jenkins is even close. I didnt before we made the picks. I had Allen as a 1st round caliber player.

I believe it. They have their own scouts. Im sure no teams really listen to Kiper or McShit or any of those types. I totally agree with you there. Obviously Yuba ranked Jenkins really high or had a NT as a really big need. Either way it worked out for us. I wish FA'cy were sooner, i really want to see what we do there and what they do with our current players.

[Yubaking]

Fleet, I understand that all 32 teams rely on their own rankings as do I in my fantasy baseball draft every year.

I am just suggesting that if the so-called experts cannot agree on which player is better, they are probably pretty close in reality.

I am not suggesting that Telesco should look at anything other than his own board when it comes to our pick. That's his job. But you would agree that if we drafted Sorenson in the first round, that would be a head scratcher. Why? It's because of everything we have read and studied, including what the so-called experts are saying.

The same applies to Jenkins versus Allen. We got a great player in Allen, so that's great. But at the time why we didn't take Jenkins was a legitimate question since we needed help at NT and were stacked at WR.

In my view, the only reason it matters at all now is because it takes us to our current NT situation. Jenkins is gone, so enough about him, but let's hope we get somebody this offseason.

I agree that Nix may be long gone by #25. He may go to PIT at #15. In that case, I may be hoping for Dennard, especially if he runs a sub-4.5 40, which is questionable. I wouldn't object to a trade back either. The chart suggests that we can get a second and third if we fall back to about #41. Barring Nix or Dennard being there at #25, I do not see much of a difference between #25 and #41. So that kind of move makes sense to me. I am sure a lot will change between now and then.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Nonsense.

[Yubaking]

Dont buy it at all. I would need to see it.

You may have a better point than I thought you had.

Right away I was going to suggest to you that both the walterfootball and Charlie Campbell mocks had Jenkins going before Allen. The walterfootball mock had Jenkins going a full round earlier and Campbell had Jenkins going only one pick earlier. Also, I think Jenkins was #1 or #2 on Kiper's BPAs when we took Allen. Allen was not above him if I recall correctly. (I have not located Kiper's big board and don't want to pay to get it for this exercise.)

However, in looking at Campbell's big board, it appears that he actually rated Allen higher (by about 14 players), but thought that Jenkins would be drafted earlier (apparently based on his pairing of team needs to the players out there). So, that takes away one of the ones that I counted as technically in favor of Jenkins and makes it in favor of Allen.

I think there were a couple of others that slightly favored Jenkins that I did recall seeing, but I am not going to go back over everybody and their brother's mother's 2013 mocks to find them for you. The point is I clearly recalled a split and there was a split. I agree that Allen's rating dropped from a mid first round pick to as low as a late third round pick and that that drop in status had everything to do with his knee and slow 40 time.

[Steve]

Why do you care what a WR runs in the 40? Aren't you judging the player's speed when you watch him play? I just don't see why anyone cares how fast a guy runs in shorts. Team and fans get to watch him play, so judge his speed off of that, especially if there are any top caliber players (or NFL drafted players) he goes up against.

[Yubaking]

Why do you care what a WR runs in the 40? Aren't you judging the player's speed when you watch him play? I just don't see why anyone cares how fast a guy runs in shorts. Team and fans get to watch him play, so judge his speed off of that, especially if there are any top caliber players (or NFL drafted players) he goes up against.

Many people commented on Allen's slow 40 time, which, in retrospect, was very likely related to his knee problems at least to some degree. There is ZERO doubt that his comparatively slow time in the 40 hurt his draft stock. Months before the draft, he was considered as a likely mid first round pick (I saw him as high as #12 overall at one point) and then he dropped all the way down to being a third round pick.

I understand that a WR's time in the 40 is not the only issue that matters, but it does matter. Greater speed helps WRs get open deep and contributes to a WR's ability to get separation because the spectre of a deep route has to be honored more so than with a slower receiver.

If it did not matter what time a WR ran in the 40 at all, they would not have players run the 40 at the Combine.