Freeney on SVP & Rusillo right now

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I would cut Freeney in a second, but it looks like Telesco wants him back. If he gets us .5 sacks again, he will only cost us slightly over $10M per sack. What a bargain!

:yawn:

Glad your split-second decision-making wasn't in a position to affect Keenan Allen or Keiser or the 2013 San Diego Chargers.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Since rookies aren't usually productive, the choice is no pass rush or Freeney. I understand Freeney will probably get hurt, or at least some people have seen that in their crystal balls. Keiser and Williams really didn't add much to our pass rush. I like both of them, but they are bottom of the roster guys right now. Both have some upside, but they haven't done much yet.

Steve, I agree with the general tenor of your post but I take exception with this section. While you are right, rookies aren't usually productive, that isn't a certainty. And because it isn't a certainty the concept of "Freeney or no pass rush" seems like overreach to me. Furthermore, while Keiser and Williams were limited this year, they both have potential for improvement. You note their upside but then suggest that since they "haven't done much yet" that they won't contribute more or significantly more next year. I think without bringing anyone new in that a healthy (no sure thing, admittedly) Ingram, Freeney, Keiser and Williams group would make a significant difference for us, especially considering we din't have the top two guys at the same time and for the majority of the season. That isn't to say I would be satisfied going into next season with the same group. My top priority for the draft is to bring in another good young guy for this group. But to say organic improvement isn't a possibility or even a probability (again, health as caveat) seems like too much. And to say "Freeney or no rush" just doesn't seem accurate.

[Bolt-O]

Here is the link to the radio interview:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10377394

[Bolt-O]

SAN DIEGO – Chargers outside linebacker Dwight Freeney appeared on ESPN Radio with hosts Scott Van Pelt and Ryen Russillo on Thursday.

Freeney talked about a number of different topics, including his eventual return to the field after finishing the 2013 season on injured reserve with a torn quad, and how long he intends to play.

“I just want to make sure I end it the right way,” Freeney said. “That means I’m not fighting an injury and limping off of the field -- making sure that I don’t have a bad taste in my mouth when I’m saying, ‘You know what, I’m done. I’ve accomplished everything.’

“I’ve won a Super Bowl. I’ve done the Pro Bowls. I’ve done the top in sacks and all of that stuff. I just want to make sure that when I’m done, I can say, ‘You know what, I’m done and it’s been a great ride.’”

Freeney is in the second year of a two-year deal that will pay him $3.5 million in non-guaranteed salary in 2014. Part of the reason he wants to return is San Diego’s surprising playoff run last season, and the fact that he believes the Chargers could be Super Bowl contenders in 2014.

“We have great management,” he said. “I’m not sure about the management prior to [this one], but we have [general manager] Tom Telesco and we have [head coach] Mike McCoy, and those guys make it a family atmosphere. You go in and you want to go to work, you want to play for this guy. And we have a lot of great leaders on that team -- Eric Weddle and Donald Butler. We have some guys who can make plays and have some experience out there -- Philip Rivers and Antonio Gates.

“So we have some cornerstones on that team. Now we have to go out and win some more of those big games. And really, honestly, the biggest problem with us is that teams that we’re supposed to beat, we play around with them. And that’s how we get those couple losses that we’re not supposed to get. But the teams that are good, we play very well and beat.”

Freeney also discussed what it was like for him to play with Rivers for the first time.

“Philip’s my guy,” Freeney said. “The thing is, he just has taken on that new system. And Philip does a great job, and he had a career year. I don’t know where his numbers were compared to years past, but he’s now in a system where he has more freedom to make those throws that he wants to make, and be able to dictate what he wants to do.

“He gets emotional a little bit up there, and he loves what he does. He’s so passionate about what he does. And that’s why sometimes it maybe comes off the wrong way. But he’s an amazing guy.”

Freeney also offered an interesting opinion when asked for his Super Bowl prediction between Seattle and Denver.

“I want Peyton [Manning] to win,” he said. “I don’t know if they’re going to win. If you look at the formula that has given that offense problems -- and believe me, I’ve seen it being around -- it’s teams that control the ball and have really good corners on their defense that gives them problems.”

[Viejo Bolt]

Want to help the pass rush? Find a man-eating, space-eating, double-team attracting NOSE TACKLE. I know those don't grow on trees, but if we had an elite one, all those "almost" sacks would turn into real sacks by the OLBs we have on the roster right now.

[Steve]

Steve, I agree with the general tenor of your post but I take exception with this section. While you are right, rookies aren't usually productive, that isn't a certainty. And because it isn't a certainty the concept of "Freeney or no pass rush" seems like overreach to me. Furthermore, while Keiser and Williams were limited this year, they both have potential for improvement. You note their upside but then suggest that since they "haven't done much yet" that they won't contribute more or significantly more next year. I think without bringing anyone new in that a healthy (no sure thing, admittedly) Ingram, Freeney, Keiser and Williams group would make a significant difference for us, especially considering we din't have the top two guys at the same time and for the majority of the season. That isn't to say I would be satisfied going into next season with the same group. My top priority for the draft is to bring in another good young guy for this group. But to say organic improvement isn't a possibility or even a probability (again, health as caveat) seems like too much. And to say "Freeney or no rush" just doesn't seem accurate.

So, what are the other options then? People keep mentioning what a horrible move it is to go after Freeney, but what other options do we really have?

For almost any upgrades of personnel, there are 3 things you can do. You can draft, you can sign a FA or you can trade for someone.

As pointed out, unless how often do rookies come in and suddenly become productive? And of those how many were high draft picks? We are drafting pretty low in the 1st round. And i am not aware of any rookie who has ever gotten more than 10 sacks who was not a 1st round pick. You are right, if we traded up, we probably could get one of the top draft picks, but still the odds are stacked against them being productive. Say forget the rookies. You are right, it is possible, but highly unlikely.

How about UDFA? We could land another Antwan Barnes. There are occasionally guys like him floating around. But how many guys signed off the street went on to get 10 sacks in a season. I don't have the stats, but I have been following NFL transactions pretty closely for the last 20 years, and I don't recall any except Barnes. The Jets got a handful one year with a former Bills #1 pick, but he was gone a year later. It just doesn't happen. I have pointed out the UFA list is especially bare. And while I think we have more cap space then many do, I know we don't have enough to go after Woirlds or Orakpo. I don't see anyone else on the list who is even remotely close to being a 10 sack a year kind of guy. It is possible that we sign a vet FA and then develop them, but that was my point, there is no one who is just going to come in and be productive.

Every once in a great while ea team will trade a pass rusher. Those moments are few and far between. The last one I really remember is Jared Allen. Fred Dean is another. Charles Haley is yet another, but NFL trade histories are not full of top pass rushers going from team to team. And the thing to remember, all of those guys got a big raise for jumping froma team that was unwilling to pay big bucks, and I don't think that is in the cards right now.

But that is kinda the point I was making. That player is not going to be able to step right in and be productive. To me the option is go with Freeney as the "other" rusher, or draft for the future and basically wait it out a year or two while they develop. I don't like it, but there it is. I would rather this be the big problem we fix in the offseason, and be done with it. But like I said, I have done some leg work, and I don't see any other options.

I do think the pass rush will be somewhat better then last year. Ingram back, Liuget and Reyes pushing the inside rush, a host of minor characters. I think we will do better then the non-existent pass rush. But we aren't into the baby steps improvements anymore. We are in the stage where we need to really do something to fix our biggest problem. But until we add that 4th rusher, the QB is just going to slide upfield behind his RT and we are going to keep watching the QB slide through our hands. Ingram is going to get doubled to death, because there is no reason that teams won't slide their protection towards him.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

So, what are the other options then? People keep mentioning what a horrible move it is to go after Freeney, but what other options do we really have?

For almost any upgrades of personnel, there are 3 things you can do. You can draft, you can sign a FA or you can trade for someone.

As pointed out, unless how often do rookies come in and suddenly become productive? And of those how many were high draft picks? We are drafting pretty low in the 1st round. And i am not aware of any rookie who has ever gotten more than 10 sacks who was not a 1st round pick. You are right, if we traded up, we probably could get one of the top draft picks, but still the odds are stacked against them being productive. Say forget the rookies. You are right, it is possible, but highly unlikely.

How about UDFA? We could land another Antwan Barnes. There are occasionally guys like him floating around. But how many guys signed off the street went on to get 10 sacks in a season. I don't have the stats, but I have been following NFL transactions pretty closely for the last 20 years, and I don't recall any except Barnes. The Jets got a handful one year with a former Bills #1 pick, but he was gone a year later. It just doesn't happen. I have pointed out the UFA list is especially bare. And while I think we have more cap space then many do, I know we don't have enough to go after Woirlds or Orakpo. I don't see anyone else on the list who is even remotely close to being a 10 sack a year kind of guy. It is possible that we sign a vet FA and then develop them, but that was my point, there is no one who is just going to come in and be productive.

Every once in a great while ea team will trade a pass rusher. Those moments are few and far between. The last one I really remember is Jared Allen. Fred Dean is another. Charles Haley is yet another, but NFL trade histories are not full of top pass rushers going from team to team. And the thing to remember, all of those guys got a big raise for jumping froma team that was unwilling to pay big bucks, and I don't think that is in the cards right now.

But that is kinda the point I was making. That player is not going to be able to step right in and be productive. To me the option is go with Freeney as the "other" rusher, or draft for the future and basically wait it out a year or two while they develop. I don't like it, but there it is. I would rather this be the big problem we fix in the offseason, and be done with it. But like I said, I have done some leg work, and I don't see any other options.

I do think the pass rush will be somewhat better then last year. Ingram back, Liuget and Reyes pushing the inside rush, a host of minor characters. I think we will do better then the non-existent pass rush. But we aren't into the baby steps improvements anymore. We are in the stage where we need to really do something to fix our biggest problem. But until we add that 4th rusher, the QB is just going to slide upfield behind his RT and we are going to keep watching the QB slide through our hands. Ingram is going to get doubled to death, because there is no reason that teams won't slide their protection towards him.

I don't want to cut ties with Freeney, so I am not advocating alternatives. But a healthy Ingram already improves the rush over the bulk of the year where we had neither player. So I don't believe that the choice is Freeney or no pass rush. Our healthy 4 should be considerably better than what we ran out there the majority of last season. As I have said repeatedly, our #1 priority remains improving the pass rush from the LBs. But your analysis is basically Freeney or nothing, which I don't agree with. And that Keiser and Williams can only be what they were last season and I don't agree with that, either. Other than that, I think we're in agreement.

[Steve]

We had something like 30 sacks this year, near the bottom of the league. I expect with those guys, it probably ends up being something like 36-38, and while that gets us into the upper teens in terms of overall rankings, that is still pretty putrid. More important than the number of sacks, you just don't get the sort of consistent pressure you need. There will be games like we had vs Jacksonville, where we rushed the QB pretty good with just 4 rushers, got some sacks and forced some turnovers. But overall, I think it is going to be another season of QB having a lot of time, because they can afford to commit their pass protection to Ingram's side, to the inside and not worry about the other.

Williams and Keiser will improve somewhat, but both have a long way to go before they are going to be solid pass rushers. Williams I think has more upside. But I don't see either as being ready to consistently provide pressure. Williams had a couple of nice rushes, but mostly he just got dominated by OT. Not that it means anything, since that happens to most rookies. But I think it implies it is going to be another year or two before he is going to start to become a real pass rusher for us. It just takes time.

Keiser I am torn on. He is like JJ. He can get sacks if the OT screws up. But he isn't going to force mistakes and is not making plays that aren't given to him. Now, as Phillips showed a couple of years ago, a starting DE or OLB can pick up. I think if he learns to shed better, he can be a fine run down player. But he has to really work on his pass rush moves to become a pass rusher. It's just that not many 3rd year guys who have shown to just be average and haven't flahsed much suddenly blossom. I would have thought we would have seen more of that by now. But that sort of sums up Jason Worilds, so it is not impossible, although unlikely.

[X-man]

The cowboys have some serious purging to do this offseason...do ya think Demarcus Ware would pair up nicely with freeney as a short term fix for the chargers if he came at a good price? It's all speculation at this point from me that he gets cut...but I could potentially see them asking him to take a pay cut and he balks. If he really like Dallas he just may, but if he wants to play his last years on team he feels can be more of a contender...maybe the Bolts should make a push for him. Just like freeney did this year, he could teach the keisers and t Williams some tricks of the trade as well...

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

We had something like 30 sacks this year, near the bottom of the league. I expect with those guys, it probably ends up being something like 36-38, and while that gets us into the upper teens in terms of overall rankings, that is still pretty putrid. More important than the number of sacks, you just don't get the sort of consistent pressure you need. There will be games like we had vs Jacksonville, where we rushed the QB pretty good with just 4 rushers, got some sacks and forced some turnovers. But overall, I think it is going to be another season of QB having a lot of time, because they can afford to commit their pass protection to Ingram's side, to the inside and not worry about the other.

Williams and Keiser will improve somewhat, but both have a long way to go before they are going to be solid pass rushers. Williams I think has more upside. But I don't see either as being ready to consistently provide pressure. Williams had a couple of nice rushes, but mostly he just got dominated by OT. Not that it means anything, since that happens to most rookies. But I think it implies it is going to be another year or two before he is going to start to become a real pass rusher for us. It just takes time.

Keiser I am torn on. He is like JJ. He can get sacks if the OT screws up. But he isn't going to force mistakes and is not making plays that aren't given to him. Now, as Phillips showed a couple of years ago, a starting DE or OLB can pick up. I think if he learns to shed better, he can be a fine run down player. But he has to really work on his pass rush moves to become a pass rusher. It's just that not many 3rd year guys who have shown to just be average and haven't flahsed much suddenly blossom. I would have thought we would have seen more of that by now. But that sort of sums up Jason Worilds, so it is not impossible, although unlikely.

So you think full seasons of Freeney, Ingram, JJ and the young guys with organic development barely move the needle. Now I dont know about their health, but I would say that doesn't compute generally or even on the basis of some of your other posts. As I have said multiple times, I still think another rush LB is our main priority but I think those components being healthy, playing together an the young guys improving just mkes things better. Not world beating better. But better. And when you think about it even modest improvement there helps this team a lot. Health is really the issue.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

The cowboys have some serious purging to do this offseason...do ya think Demarcus Ware would pair up nicely with freeney as a short term fix for the chargers if he came at a good price? It's all speculation at this point from me that he gets cut...but I could potentially see them asking him to take a pay cut and he balks. If he really like Dallas he just may, but if he wants to play his last years on team he feels can be more of a contender...maybe the Bolts should make a push for him. Just like freeney did this year, he could teach the keisers and t Williams some tricks of the trade as well...

Ware isnt going anywhere

[Beerman]

So you think full seasons of Freeney, Ingram, JJ and the young guys with organic development barely move the needle. Now I dont know about their health, but I would say that doesn't compute generally or even on the basis of some of your other posts. As I have said multiple times, I still think another rush LB is our main priority but I think those components being healthy, playing together an the young guys improving just mkes things better. Not world beating better. But better. And when you think about it even modest improvement there helps this team a lot. Health is really the issue.

Having all those guys healthy will definitely help, but none of them are really what you would call dominant pass rushers. If Freeney/Ingram stay healthy all season, they probably get about 16-18 sacks between them. Add in about 12 combined from the D line/backup OLB's. Then about 6-8 from Blitzes.

Reasonable scenario puts us at about 36-38 sacks which would make us about league average.

If we want to get into that elite range we not only need Liuget/Reyes to take the next step (that I expected from them this year), but we also need to acquire that elite outside speed rusher we lack.