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[Heatmiser]

Flores seems like a pretty good HC. I see a younger Mike Tomlin when I think about him. But he just committed NFL and NCAA HC suicide. Maybe he gets a job elsewhere in media somehow but I don’t think he will ever coach again. NFL and NCAA are NOT going to lose. He may get paid to be quiet and go away but there is too much at stake. And agree, the biggest issue here for the NFL, in their eyes, is not racism or discrimination, its the rich old owners intentionally losing games. Homer might be taking down Mr. Smithers.

Flores broke a bro code, though. I just had to fire someone and we ask them to sign a non-disparagement in return for some severance money, even when they DESERVE to be fired for non performance. I have to think that whatever Flores is being paid post being fired is predicated on not shooting his mouth off about internal club business (read: owner saying to throw games so can draft Tua).

TG

[Topcat]

Flores seems like a pretty good HC. I see a younger Mike Tomlin when I think about him. But he just committed NFL and NCAA HC suicide. Maybe he gets a job elsewhere in media somehow but I don’t think he will ever coach again. NFL and NCAA are NOT going to lose. He may get paid to be quiet and go away but there is too much at stake. And agree, the biggest issue here for the NFL, in their eyes, is not racism or discrimination, its the rich old owners intentionally losing games. Homer might be taking down Mr. Smithers.

Flores broke a bro code, though. I just had to fire someone and we ask them to sign a non-disparagement in return for some severance money, even when they DESERVE to be fired for non performance. I have to think that whatever Flores is being paid post being fired is predicated on not shooting his mouth off about internal club business (read: owner saying to throw games so can draft Tua).

TG

Throwing games? NOOOO! Say it ain't so, Flo!

[Guest]

So much to unpack here.

To Steve Wyche….lots of people take interviews knowing they are a long shot for the job but hoping to at least gain the experience. It has even happened to me and I am white and not an NFL HC candidate. It’s just the way the job market works and the higher the position the more it happens.

I was surprised when Flores was fired. I was even more surprised when he was hired. But I think he demonstrated he is a pretty good head coach. Way better than Joe Judge that’s for sure.

I was not surprised to read that Elway was late, disheveled, and hung over. It is a pretty consistent rumor that Elway unfortunately has a drinking problem. And the Broncos under his leadership had other execs with the same. Remember one drove into a parked police cruiser.

The NFL and the teams can probably trot out all kinds of documentation and witnesses that will counter what Flores is saying. And remember he didn’t get a job so he will be perceived to have an axe to grind. But the NFL cannot win this one. Being publicly called a racist is hard to come back from, no matter what, today. And the NFL cannot afford image problems.

I don’t have data in front of me, but it sure looks like the NFL hires black head coaches and coordinators and front office people. The trending is all in the right direction. Think about how many teams have had or currently have black head coaches. Raiders, Tampa, Indy, Steelers, Browns, Chiefs, Broncos, Dolphins, Vikings, Jets, Texans, Bengals, 49ers, Chargers. Is that half the league yet? And that is just off the top of my head, I am sure I am leaving some out. I just think it will be very hard for FLores to prove anything legally other than maybe the Giants broke an NFL rule. I don’t think he can prove discrimination.

And how appropriate that the king of all cheaters, rule breakers and complying with the rule but neither the spirit or intent, Bill Belicheck is in the middle of this.


NFL has got to be hating this. They want all the talk to be about hyping the Super Bowl and Brady did what he did when he did it, Now Flores. All that is missing is for Bob Kraft to get a massage.

TG

IMO, the NFL has invited lawsuits by throwing big money at and settling cases it could have won (Kaepernick, St. Louis, et cetera).

I think that has encouraged attorneys to file cases against the NFL (San Diego lawsuit, Flores lawsuit).

Today, I read Flores' lawsuit. As an attorney, I am unimpressed by it. There are so many holes in Flores' complaint that it would be more accurate to call it all holes and no cheese rather than to call it Swiss cheese.

Here are just a few of the issues with the complaint (too many to list all of them):

1. Somehow, according to Flores, the percentage of African Americans (about 70%) in the grossly overrepresented group known as players (evidence in and of itself against discrimination) must be equaled in HC, coordinator and GM positions or there is rampant discrimination. Why? African Americans only represent about 12.4% of the population at large.

2. Flores claims that he was "forced" to endure a sham interview with the Giants. He actually uses that word. He claims that the Belichick texts prove that the Giants had decided on Daboll before his interview. But to the extent he wishes to rely on Belichick's texts as some kind of irrefutable evidence (which it is not in case anyone cares) that the Giants had already decided to hire Daboll, he seems to ignore entirely that he had that information well before his interview. If he felt he was not being considered seriously for the position, he could have interviewed for the experience (as many people do in all types of job situations) or he could have simply cancelled his interview. He was not "forced" into doing anything.

3. The statistical analyses cited in Flores' complaint are very unimpressive. They are all easy to challenge. The sample sizes are small/fairly small and what happened varied on a case by case basis to the point that the stats really do not mean anything. At one point, the complaint actually condemns that fewer African Americans have been rehired for HC positions than Caucasians since 1963 as if that meant anything, completely ignoring that far more Caucasian HCs have been fired over that time period, which would naturally account for the disparity in rehire numbers. Stupid statistical references are rampant in the document.

4. The specific case examples are particularly unimpressive. The attempted defense of Caldwell's head coaching position after the team went 2-14 is just one example of the ridiculous analysis offered throughout. Who is Flores kidding? Peyton Manning or no Peyton Manning, a head coach that goes 2-14 and gets fired is not great evidence of racial discrimination. And another example concerns a head coach (Steve Wilks) that went 3-13. He also seems to suggest that in cases in which a Caucasian candidate was hired over an African American, there was discrimination. No consideration is given for the possibility that the Caucasian candidate won the job by being the better candidate/fit for the job.

There are many other problems as well, but the way the complaint is set forth actually makes Flores sound like he has an attitude of entitlement. It does Flores, who seems to be a solid coach, no great favor. When I was reading the document, I found myself often thinking, "So what?" That is a sign that the complaint could potentially be subject to a motion that would dispose of it as not stating any sort of factual/legal basis upon which relief may be granted. To be clear, I am not suggesting that such a motion would necessarily prevail, but I think it does reflect a weak complaint if it is such that it would invite such a challenge.

But, based upon past examples, the NFL will probably decide to lend some credence to what Flores is claiming by throwing money at him as they have with other lawsuits. IMO, that is a bad strategy and the NFL should probably stand its ground here.

[dmac_bolt]

I think the pay to lose games is the biggest news. Wonder if he has hard evidence on that - agree with prior post that could be a forced-sale offense if it snowballs at all in the media. Thats a core anti-competition violation at the very heart of The Shield - its akin to fixing games.

If true. Who knows …

[Leslie Grossman]

Throwing games? NOOOO! Say it ain't so, Flo!

The owner wanted Burrow. Hard to blame him.:stirpot::Cheers1:

[Topcat]

IMO, the NFL has invited lawsuits by throwing big money at and settling cases it could have won (Kaepernick, St. Louis, et cetera).

I think that has encouraged attorneys to file cases against the NFL (San Diego lawsuit, Flores lawsuit).

Today, I read Flores' lawsuit. As an attorney, I am unimpressed by it. There are so many holes in Flores' complaint that it would be more accurate to call it all holes and no cheese rather than to call it Swiss cheese.

Here are just a few of the issues with the complaint (too many to list all of them):

1. Somehow, according to Flores, the percentage of African Americans (about 70%) in the grossly overrepresented group known as players (evidence in and of itself against discrimination) must be equaled in HC, coordinator and GM positions or there is rampant discrimination. Why? African Americans only represent about 12.4% of the population at large.

2. Flores claims that he was "forced" to endure a sham interview with the Giants. He actually uses that word. He claims that the Belichick texts prove that the Giants had decided on Daboll before his interview. But to the extent he wishes to rely on Belichick's texts as some kind of irrefutable evidence (which it is not in case anyone cares) that the Giants had already decided to hire Daboll, he seems to ignore entirely that he had that information well before his interview. If he felt he was not being considered seriously for the position, he could have interviewed for the experience (as many people do in all types of job situations) or he could have simply cancelled his interview. He was not "forced" into doing anything.

3. The statistical analyses cited in Flores' complaint are very unimpressive. They are all easy to challenge. The sample sizes are small/fairly small and what happened varied on a case by case basis to the point that the stats really do not mean anything. At one point, the complaint actually condemns that fewer African Americans have been rehired for HC positions than Caucasians since 1963 as if that meant anything, completely ignoring that far more Caucasian HCs have been fired over that time period, which would naturally account for the disparity in rehire numbers. Stupid statistical references are rampant in the document.

4. The specific case examples are particularly unimpressive. The attempted defense of Caldwell's head coaching position after the team went 2-14 is just one example of the ridiculous analysis offered throughout. Who is Flores kidding? Peyton Manning or no Peyton Manning, a head coach that goes 2-14 and gets fired is not great evidence of racial discrimination. And another example concerns a head coach (Steve Wilks) that went 3-13. He also seems to suggest that in cases in which a Caucasian candidate was hired over an African American, there was discrimination. No consideration is given for the possibility that the Caucasian candidate won the job by being the better candidate/fit for the job.

There are many other problems as well, but the way the complaint is set forth actually makes Flores sound like he has an attitude of entitlement. It does Flores, who seems to be a solid coach, no great favor. When I was reading the document, I found myself often thinking, "So what?" That is a sign that the complaint could potentially be subject to a motion that would dispose of it as not stating any sort of factual/legal basis upon which relief may be granted. To be clear, I am not suggesting that such a motion would necessarily prevail, but I think it does reflect a weak complaint if it is such that it would invite such a challenge.

But, based upon past examples, the NFL will probably decide to lend some credence to what Flores is claiming by throwing money at him as they have with other lawsuits. IMO, that is a bad strategy and the NFL should probably stand its ground here.

In theory, the NFL might stand their ground and win. However, in the arena of public opinion, the NFL would probably rather not have to endure months, maybe even a year or more of highly-charged racist negative publicity. I'm guessing they settle the suit fairly quickly with a sizeable dollar figure, and under terms of the settlement, the NFL issues an apology, and announces some new tweaking of the Rooney Rule to be even MORE inclusive...maybe even a QUOTA system...

[gzubeck]

In theory, the NFL might stand their ground and win. However, in the arena of public opinion, the NFL would probably rather not have to endure months, maybe even a year or more of highly-charged racist negative publicity. I'm guessing they settle the suit with a sizeable dollar figure, and under terms of the settlement, the NFL issues an apology, and announces some new tweaking of the Rooney Rule to be even MORE inclusive...maybe even a QUOTA system...

If I was Flores I would have interviewed with at least 4 teams that need a coach and if all the interviews were a joke then he probably would have stronger grounds for a lawsuit.

[equivocation]

They'd be better off just ditching the Rooney rule.

[AK47]

Washington Commanders? Weak sauce.

What they should've done is this...

Washington Cobra Commanders. Now that's badass.

[gzubeck]

They'd be better off just ditching the Rooney rule.

If black people were represented by the percentage of just the general population there should be at least 4 black head coaches in the NFL. If teams don't like having a black head coach the NFL can pay some team's head coach their entire salary so the team can hire the best coordinators with bigger salaries. Maybe were in a drought or we have a bunch of seriously stupid owners in the league. I would rather the league implement the stupid rule for ownership. If your rated in the bottom third for a decade you go on a 5 year probation. If your still rated in the bottom third you Have to sell the team!

opcorn:

[jamrock]

If I was Flores I would have interviewed with at least 4 teams that need a coach and if all the interviews were a joke then he probably would have stronger grounds for a lawsuit.

Hasn’t he also interviewed for Saints and Texans job? If the Texans hire Josh Mc-high school then he should win the case at that moment.

[jamrock]

I think the pay to lose games is the biggest news. Wonder if he has hard evidence on that - agree with prior post that could be a forced-sale offense if it snowballs at all in the media. Thats a core anti-competition violation at the very heart of The Shield - its akin to fixing games.

If true. Who knows …

Yep. That one is going to have the NFL destroying evidence and forcing Ross to pay out a big settlement or GTFO.