2024 Chargers Draft Superthread - Prospect Discussion - Draft Has Started

[Boltnut]

The increasing mocks that have Koolaid going later Rd1 tell me these guys believe his 40 is 4.55? But are they right?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...go-defense/%0A

These same mocks have Terrion Arnold going before Kool-Aid. But good college coaches (one of them being our HC now) disagree.
Nick Saban had Kool-Aid locking down one side of the field (mostly man v. man). It allowed Alabama to add another defender to the other side of the defense and condensed throwing lanes in the zone defense they ran on the opposite side of Kool-Aid. Saban recognized Arnold's limitations in coverage while recognizing the superior coverage traits of Kool-Aid. Saban did this vs. LSU (Nabers). Saban did this vs Georgia (Bowers). And he did this vs Michigan (Harbaugh). Nowhere during these games does Kool-Aid look like he runs 4.55.

LSU offense vs Alabama defense: Malik Nabers spends most of the afternoon on the opposite side of Kool-Aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7rjESWQKKVY&t=1s

Georgia offense vs Alabama defense (SEC Championship). Bowers gets lose on first play... schemed open. Not much the rest of the game. Kirby Smart stays away from Kool-Aid all game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c3lm_s2MHA

I can't find a "Michigan Offense vs Alabama Defense" cut-up tape. But I watched the game... and Michigan (Harbaugh) stays away from Kool-Aid... they chose to go after Terrion Arnold and Malachai Moore.

[Velo]

I am in the draft Bowers at 5 - if he is there or trade down

I think you can get close or comparable WRs if you trade down; plus other options like OT, Dallas Turner, Kool- Aid - - -all of this players in the 8-11 range in the first round

From what I understand, there is one Brock Bowers at TE and a big drop off

If he is going to be as good as or better than Kelce/Kittle, I'm onboard. I'd prefer to find an All Pro TE in the 5th round, where the 49ers drafted Kittle, but I'll take Bowers at #5 if he's that good.

[Boltnut]

I have not been a fan of drafting Brock Bowers, preferring instead to trade down to acquire more value round picks. I believe a QB needy team will be willing to surrender a bounty of picks to trade up to #5, and it would be in the Chargers' interest to have more picks in rounds 2-4 in this draft.

but...

Look at who is still in the tournament.

Kelce
Kittle
La Porta
Mark Andrews - the Ravens got here without Andrews, but he's been cleared to play Sunday and he has been a top 3 TE in recent years

These may four of the five best TEs in the league at the moment. And they're all playing in the championship games, which says a lot about the important role an elite TE plays in going far in the playoffs.

So I won't be upset at all if the Chargers draft Bowers.

I think I'd prefer the trade back. If they can get extra players in the 3rd and 4th rounds, the roster will be stronger... the whole team will be stronger.

Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, and Andrews are all very good TE's. But also amongst those TE's, you should also add TJ Hockenson and Evan Engram (statisticall they were the #3 and #4 TE's this year). Their teams are not in the playoffs. Their teams don't have deep rosters. Those 2 TE's were both 1st round draft picks (unlike all of the other TE's that were listed).

There were other playoff TE's that had good showings in the playoffs, too. Jake Ferguson, Cade Otton, Dalton Schultz... all 3 of them were 4th rounders. Championship rosters don't have to be built with 1st round TE's. Most of these remaining playoff teams have 1st round OT's, DE's, and CB's though. IMO, that's how you build a Championship roster.

[powderblueboy]

If he is going to be as good as or better than Kelce/Kittle, I'm onboard. I'd prefer to find an All Pro TE in the 5th round, where the 49ers drafted Kittle, but I'll take Bowers at #5 if he's that good.

The unfortunate answer is maybe.

And it helped Kelce a ton being in Andy Reid's offense, with Patrick Mahomes throwing him the football.
Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about him as an all time great.

Everyone would prefer finding HOFer tight ends in the 5th round or beyond.

[Critty]

I have not been a fan of drafting Brock Bowers, preferring instead to trade down to acquire more value round picks. I believe a QB needy team will be willing to surrender a bounty of picks to trade up to #5, and it would be in the Chargers' interest to have more picks in rounds 2-4 in this draft.

but...

Look at who is still in the tournament.

Kelce
Kittle
La Porta
Mark Andrews - the Ravens got here without Andrews, but he's been cleared to play Sunday and he has been a top 3 TE in recent years

These may four of the five best TEs in the league at the moment. And they're all playing in the championship games, which says a lot about the important role an elite TE plays in going far in the playoffs.

So I won't be upset at all if the Chargers draft Bowers.

I like the idea of trading back and adding picks. But I would only want to trade #5 to Atl for #8 and their 2nd Rd pick. Nothing less. #5 has to be for 2nd Rd or future 1st. Or if da Bears want to move back up from #9 then I need their 2025 1st Rd pick. Otherwise I'm not moving out of #5.

As far as looking who still in tournament.
it's a good list of TEs and yet none where picked in Rd1.

But I do see great OTs. Williams, Stanley, Decker, Sewell
Rd 1 picks. And the lowest drafted Left Tackle Smith at #34 matches the highest TE La Porta #34 pick.

So to me that says get your OTs who protect the franchise QB with top picks 1-34. Get your QB his security blanket TE with picks 34......until early Rd 5.

I'm ot spending #5 on Bowers. No way. Joe Alt-OT at #5.

Think Ben Sinnott TE can give me very similar football as Bowers and will be available in Rd 2-3.

I don't think I can find a similar to Joe Alt in Rd 2 or 3.

[Velo]

I think I'd prefer the trade back. If they can get extra players in the 3rd and 4th rounds, the roster will be stronger... the whole team will be stronger.

Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, and Andrews are all very good TE's. But also amongst those TE's, you should also add TJ Hockenson and Evan Engram (statisticall they were the #3 and #4 TE's this year). Their teams are not in the playoffs. Their teams don't have deep rosters. Those 2 TE's were both 1st round draft picks (unlike all of the other TE's that were listed).

This is actually my preference. Trade down and trade down more to accumulate a boatload of round 2-4 picks in THIS draft.

[dmac_bolt]

These same mocks have Terrion Arnold going before Kool-Aid. But good college coaches (one of them being our HC now) disagree.
Nick Saban had Kool-Aid locking down one side of the field (mostly man v. man). It allowed Alabama to add another defender to the other side of the defense and condensed throwing lanes in the zone defense they ran on the opposite side of Kool-Aid. Saban recognized Arnold's limitations in coverage while recognizing the superior coverage traits of Kool-Aid. Saban did this vs. LSU (Nabers). Saban did this vs Georgia (Bowers). And he did this vs Michigan (Harbaugh). Nowhere during these games does Kool-Aid look like he runs 4.55.

LSU offense vs Alabama defense: Malik Nabers spends most of the afternoon on the opposite side of Kool-Aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7rjESWQKKVY&t=1s

Georgia offense vs Alabama defense (SEC Championship). Bowers gets lose on first play... schemed open. Not much the rest of the game. Kirby Smart stays away from Kool-Aid all game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c3lm_s2MHA

I can't find a "Michigan Offense vs Alabama Defense" cut-up tape. But I watched the game... and Michigan (Harbaugh) stays away from Kool-Aid... they chose to go after Terrion Arnold and Malachai Moore.

Every analyst, every one of which has seen film like you show and many of them have watched a lot more, have ALL assessed he is not Top 10 talent when projecting to the pro level and that cannot simply be ignored as “I’m right, they’re wrong”. It’s not a few, it’s not some, it’s ALL. I have never seen him rated T10. Maybe he is better than Arnold against college receivers, that doesnt make him a T10 pick. Maybe neither should be. They are projecting to the next level, not giving trophies for how they play against college receivers.

Maybe college opponents found it easier to attack other parts of their defense. great. That doesn’t prove he’s T10. He was great in college, maybe he is - but a deeper dissection of evidence is required that he is T10. Video of him not making a play because coaches went to other parts of the field isn’t proof he projects to the pro level as a T10 elite talent. But maybe he does - I’m open to learn.

I’ll stand by my pensive pending status: if he runs a 4.55, he’s not a Top 10 talent. Jmo. That can work great in college but may not in the pros. Bama also has DL/Edge players rated top talent, maybe pass rush covered for his lack of speed - or maybe he “plays” like a 4.4 DB.

If he runs a 4.45, he is Top10 talent. His hips are very loose and fluid, he reacts quickly with great balance and control to adjust and mirror the receiver and stick with him through cuts and moves. He has traits that are excellent. But if he runs 4.55, he’ll be exposed at the pro level. He needs to run at the combine if he wants a T10 selection. He and his advisors fully know the only question is his speed. If he doesnt run, everyone will assume they know why.

If he runs mid 4.4’s,. I’m down with a high pick on him. I think Harbo probably will build closer to the trench but anybody’s guess is as good as the next and a great CB is a great asset to a defense.

[Boltjolt]

These same mocks have Terrion Arnold going before Kool-Aid. But good college coaches (one of them being our HC now) disagree.
Nick Saban had Kool-Aid locking down one side of the field (mostly man v. man). It allowed Alabama to add another defender to the other side of the defense and condensed throwing lanes in the zone defense they ran on the opposite side of Kool-Aid. Saban recognized Arnold's limitations in coverage while recognizing the superior coverage traits of Kool-Aid. Saban did this vs. LSU (Nabers). Saban did this vs Georgia (Bowers). And he did this vs Michigan (Harbaugh). Nowhere during these games does Kool-Aid look like he runs 4.55.

LSU offense vs Alabama defense: Malik Nabers spends most of the afternoon on the opposite side of Kool-Aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7rjESWQKKVY&t=1s

Georgia offense vs Alabama defense (SEC Championship). Bowers gets lose on first play... schemed open. Not much the rest of the game. Kirby Smart stays away from Kool-Aid all game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c3lm_s2MHA

I can't find a "Michigan Offense vs Alabama Defense" cut-up tape. But I watched the game... and Michigan (Harbaugh) stays away from Kool-Aid... they chose to go after Terrion Arnold and Malachai Moore.

Not what i saw. KoolAid went out hurt in the 3rd quarter, looked like he got his bell rung on a run play sweep ..#9 went in for him and the offense for Georgia didnt change. They didnt throw more to that side at all.

Two of Bowers catches were TE screens that went no where and two others he didnt catch were bad throws. On the long pass to the WR that was complete, Bowers was open in the middle w/ KA covering but he went deep instead @ the 9 min mark. Next play Kool Aid got hit by his own guy and didnt return.

[powderblueboy]

These same mocks have Terrion Arnold going before Kool-Aid. But good college coaches (one of them being our HC now) disagree.
Nick Saban had Kool-Aid locking down one side of the field (mostly man v. man). It allowed Alabama to add another defender to the other side of the defense and condensed throwing lanes in the zone defense they ran on the opposite side of Kool-Aid. Saban recognized Arnold's limitations in coverage while recognizing the superior coverage traits of Kool-Aid. Saban did this vs. LSU (Nabers). Saban did this vs Georgia (Bowers). And he did this vs Michigan (Harbaugh). Nowhere during these games does Kool-Aid look like he runs 4.55.

LSU offense vs Alabama defense: Malik Nabers spends most of the afternoon on the opposite side of Kool-Aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7rjESWQKKVY&t=1s

Georgia offense vs Alabama defense (SEC Championship). Bowers gets lose on first play... schemed open. Not much the rest of the game. Kirby Smart stays away from Kool-Aid all game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c3lm_s2MHA

I can't find a "Michigan Offense vs Alabama Defense" cut-up tape. But I watched the game... and Michigan (Harbaugh) stays away from Kool-Aid... they chose to go after Terrion Arnold and Malachai Moore.

Yeah, Bowers did not impress the entire game.

He has nice hands. I'm curious about his actual size .... I'd guess closer to 6'2".
He doesn't look/play that much larger than the dbs covering him ... and for me, that's a problem.
He's a willing blocker, but completely over matched against Bama's ends

I'd prefer Alt, and definitely Nabers.

[Boltjolt]

I like the idea of trading back and adding picks. But I would only want to trade #5 to Atl for #8 and their 2nd Rd pick. Nothing less. #5 has to be for 2nd Rd or future 1st. Or if da Bears want to move back up from #9 then I need their 2025 1st Rd pick. Otherwise I'm not moving out of #5.

As far as looking who still in tournament.
it's a good list of TEs and yet none where picked in Rd1.

But I do see great OTs. Williams, Stanley, Decker, Sewell
Rd 1 picks. And the lowest drafted Left Tackle Smith at #34 matches the highest TE La Porta #34 pick.

So to me that says get your OTs who protect the franchise QB with top picks 1-34. Get your QB his security blanket TE with picks 34......until early Rd 5.

I'm ot spending #5 on Bowers. No way. Joe Alt-OT at #5.

Think Ben Sinnott TE can give me very similar football as Bowers and will be available in Rd 2-3.

I don't think I can find a similar to Joe Alt in Rd 2 or 3.

Dont think we are getting a 2nd for moving down 3 spots. If there is a surprise QB there, maybe if they really want him but otherwise id think we get a 3rd and a 4th....maybe they offer 2025 3rd. But a 2nd ...IDK maybe but i dont think its a given. Idf take the third to move 3 spots if we can still get our guy. But Tennessee is also a ? . They could go OL OR Bowers IMO....so who knows. Id pick Bowers at 5 to be sure.

And Sinnott isnt similar or he would be rated higher than round 3-4. and i do like him but don think he can start right away.

[powderblueboy]

Every analyst, every one of which has seen film like you show and many of them have watched a lot more, have ALL assessed he is not Top 10 talent when projecting to the pro level and that cannot simply be ignored as “I’m right, they’re wrong”. It’s not a few, it’s not some, it’s ALL. I have never seen him rated T10. Maybe he is better than Arnold against college receivers, that doesnt make him a T10 pick. Maybe neither should be. They are projecting to the next level, not giving trophies for how they play against college receivers.

Maybe college opponents found it easier to attack other parts of their defense. great. That doesn’t prove he’s T10. He was great in college, maybe he is - but a deeper dissection of evidence is required that he is T10. Video of him not making a play because coaches went to other parts of the field isn’t proof he projects to the pro level as a T10 elite talent. But maybe he does - I’m open to learn.

I’ll stand by my pensive pending status: if he runs a 4.55, he’s not a Top 10 talent. Jmo. That can work great in college but may not in the pros. Bama also has DL/Edge players rated top talent, maybe pass rush covered for his lack of speed - or maybe he “plays” like a 4.4 DB.

If he runs a 4.45, he is Top10 talent. His hips are very loose and fluid, he reacts quickly with great balance and control to adjust and mirror the receiver and stick with him through cuts and moves. He has traits that are excellent. But if he runs 4.55, he’ll be exposed at the pro level. He needs to run at the combine if he wants a T10 selection. He and his advisors fully know the only question is his speed. If he doesnt run, everyone will assume they know why.

If he runs mid 4.4’s,. I’m down with a high pick on him. I think Harbo probably will build closer to the trench but anybody’s guess is as good as the next and a great CB is a great asset to a defense.

Agree.

I'd like to see Kool aid go up against studs, and I'd like to see his 40 time.
Verrett blanketed Odell Beckham Jr. in college ... so you knew how good he was when healthy.

Not interested in a 4.5 cb in the top half of the 1rst.
Even Telesco wouldn't be fine with it.

[Boltjolt]

Agree.

I'd like to see Kool aid go up against studs, and I'd like to see his 40 time.
Verrett blanketed Odell Beckham Jr. in college ... so you knew how good he was when healthy.

Not interested in a 4.5 cb in the top half of the 1rst.
Even Telesco wouldn't be fine with it.

Kool Aid only plays the one side. Nabers is pretty much in the slot all the time so he never covered Nabers in that game and they were force feeding Nabers in that game. Im not down on McKinstrey at all, i think he is a good cover guy but im not just going to call him a shut down corner. That LSU game was also goos tape for Arnold and not so good tape for Dallas Turner as a pas rusher though he did make the one tipped ball that Arnold intercepted.