And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Maniaque 6]

If Bowers is going to be the pick, I'd really try to find a trade down partner somewhere before pick ~14 if at all possible. A lot of the teams behind us in that range have glaring needs at positions where there are highly rated players slated to be available, and I kind of doubt any of them would go with a TE. If we can get our guy while picking up a couple of Day 2 picks in the process, that would be an absolute homerun.

Bowers will not be there at 14.
Another OL ? Is that the solution ?

[SAY OW 55]

If we draft Bowers what happens to Parham? Parham doesn't fit the Harbaugh mold.

No hes gone probably sign a guy like Zach Ertz for the mentor of Brock Bowers.

[AK47]

If Bowers is going to be the pick, I'd really try to find a trade down partner somewhere before pick ~14 if at all possible. A lot of the teams behind us in that range have glaring needs at positions where there are highly rated players slated to be available, and I kind of doubt any of them would go with a TE. If we can get our guy while picking up a couple of Day 2 picks in the process, that would be an absolute homerun.

Man o man. So check this out. Bowers had a 81% catch rate in 2023 and reviewing the tape he has soft hands. What? The top 3 WR's in this draft are more the 70%ish catch rate.

26 receiving TDs in 3 seasons. Yeah we know that. Had a 78 yard Receiving TD in 2022. What? Had a 89 yard receiving TD in 2021. What?

5 rushing TDs averaging nearly 13 yards a carry his first 2 seasons and when defenses locked down him still averaged 4.7 per carry his final season. What? Had a 75-yard TD run. What?

I'm starting to think he's got legit 4.48 speed. Forget being merely a security blanket for Herbert. This kid's a home run threat every time he touches the ball.

Damn. I'm starting to not mind getting him at #5.

[Fouts2herbert]

Man o man. So check this out. Bowers had a 81% catch rate in 2023 and reviewing the tape he has soft hands. What? The top 3 WR's in this draft are more the 70%ish catch rate.

26 receiving TDs in 3 seasons. Yeah we know that. Had a 78 yard Receiving TD in 2022. What? Had a 89 yard receiving TD in 2021. What?

5 rushing TDs averaging nearly 13 yards a carry his first 2 seasons and when defenses locked down him still averaged 4.7 per carry his final season. What? Had a 75-yard TD run. What?

I'm starting to think he's got legit 4.48 speed. Forget being merely a security blanket for Herbert. This kid's a home run threat every time he touches the ball.

Damn. I'm starting to not mind getting him at #5.

He's one of those guys that catches everything, behind, contested, low, high, one handed etc...you can't put a value on that, the guy is a weapon, I'm not saying he's the next travis kelce but he reminds me of kelce in how fluid he is, how he runs with a low pad level like a big running back, and how he can contort himself to come down with all types of passes...strong but soft hands and deceptive athleticism and speed...he's worth the #5 IMO...

[Fouts2herbert]

Bowers will not be there at 14.
Another OL ? Is that the solution ?

I don't think Bowers makes it past the chargers at 5, but even if he does for some odd reason, he'll be gone before pick #10 easy...

[Fouts2herbert]

for anyone thinking Brock Bowers is not worth the #5 pick, I consistently see him ranked in the top 6 overall for all prospects entering this years draft...the only way I take back from 5 is if the team trading up is one spot below and they are specifically targeting a QB...I don't think the chargers will be trading down unless they decide to go in a different direction and have a different cluster of players in mind several spots lower, like say a corner or one of the OTs...

[21&500]

for anyone thinking Brock Bowers is not worth the #5 pick, I consistently see him ranked in the top 6 overall for all prospects entering this years draft...the only way I take back from 5 is if the team trading up is one spot below and they are specifically targeting a QB...I don't think the chargers will be trading down unless they decide to go in a different direction and have a different cluster of players in mind several spots lower, like say a corner or one of the OTs...

I'm starting to think the same.
I'm specifically worried about Tennessee, they are prime candidates to steal Brock to pair with mr bicep QB

[DerwinBosa]

I just asked you did you think he was Orlando Pace.

simple you like Joe Alt.

I have no issue with a tackle. Brock Bowers is about as clean as a prospect. And I’m more than qualified to say and give my opinion on him being picked. I have experience in sports broadcasting.

You mention all this.

is Joe Alt

Jonathan Ogden?

is Joe Alt

Joe Thomas?

is Joe Alt Laremsy Tunsil????

these are elite superior left tackles.

Ronnie Stayley was elite from Notre Dame. Las Vegas I have a way higher grade on him than I do on Alt.

Tyron Smith from Moreno Valley USC was elite.

you wanna replace an All pro Left Tackle who’s done a tremendous job protecting our Franchise Quarterback so I don’t get it.

I don't want to replace Slater with Alt. I'm looking at options for right tackle.

Tyron Smith was drafted as a right tackle in 2011. He was 20 years old, and there were a lot of questions about him succeeding in the NFL, which is why he fell to the ninth overall pick that year.

You're throwing out all of these names of elite offensive tackles and asking is Joe Alt any of them. My answer is I don't know...I'm not an NFL scout, but I do like Alt's potential. You seem to have determined that he's not as good as any of those players, so I'm asking you how you have determined that.

There are just as many "experts" throwing around the overused words of "generational talent" for Joe Alt as there are for Brock Bowers. Most of it is complete bullshit, as these people have no experience breaking down film at the college or professional level.

[DerwinBosa]

As good as Alt is...would a good/great RT be more transformative than what Bowers can bring at TE?

No doubt we can always use more help in the trenches. I would be happy with either pick.

Just thinking out loud - after 10 years, who do you think will have done more to help us win games? Obviously OL play is hard to quantify, I get it.

Once in a generation talent at TE or a very good RT? And I don't mean this as a knock on Alt, again I would be happy with either, just that Bowers to me feels more "special."

Bowers better be that if you're drafting him fifth overall.

But to answer your question at the beginning of your post, I think Penei Sewell at right tackle has been quite "transformative" for the Lions. I'm not saying Joe Alt is Penei Sewell, nor am I saying Brock Bowers is Travis Kelce, whose 133 yards on nine receptions did nothing for the Chiefs in their embarrassing 31-9 Super Bowl loss to the Buccaneers, when Patrick Mahomes was running for his life the entire game during by far the worst performance of his career--because he had no protection.

[Steve]

Bowers better be that if you're drafting him fifth overall.

But to answer your question at the beginning of your post, I think Penei Sewell at right tackle has been quite "transformative" for the Lions. I'm not saying Joe Alt is Penei Sewell, nor am I saying Brock Bowers is Travis Kelce, whose 133 yards on nine receptions did nothing for the Chiefs in their embarrassing 31-9 Super Bowl loss to the Buccaneers, when Patrick Mahomes was running for his life the entire game during by far the worst performance of his career--because he had no protection.

The KC not being able to protect Mahommes in the SB is a little disingenuous.

Yes, they lost the game because of protection problems, I am not debating that.

However ... Kelce was the only O they had and the KC OL was fine-(ish) up to the game before, because they had a couple of starters injured.

Even if you draft Alt (or insert other OL prospect here, have him develop and play at a pro bowl level) ... there is no guarantee the OT doesn't get hurt at the worst possible moment. It's a contact sport and shit happens.

I still don't know what people mean by a generational talent. I know what people think it means, but right now it is just a buzzword.

People have to remember there is a difference between talent and being a good football player. Teams draft guys because they are good players. Michael Sam and Manti Teo were 2 of the most dominant college players in the last couple of decades, but I picked them because even though they were great players in college neither did much as pros. It happens. Guys who have the right combinations of whatever ... enough to be great college guys ... but not the ability to play in the NFL.

Some guys get drafted high like Kyle Pitts and Cordello Patterson. Productive guys in college who got taken high, but have not improved their technique to the point they have turned into great players (thinking of Patterson as a WR, the position he was drafted as).

Then there are guys like Kittle and Kelce (I am not picking them because they are TE, they are just the examples that come to mind). Neither was a great college player. Neither was even close to being the best players at their positions. There are all kinds of reasons. But they had the abilities and with pro coaching and being challenged by NFL-level competition in practice, both developed rapidly and they are probably the 2 best TE in football. Herbert was another. He was not that great a player in college, for a lot of reasons.

The point is that some players get drafted high because they have talent ... some because they were great college guys. And some guys have both. Scouting is about figuring out the mix. College players all have to get better to be top NFL players. But how do you balance the ability vs technique? I have been scouting players intently since I was in college in the early 90's and I don't have a clue how to balance them. NFL teams still bust on something like 60% of their 1st round picks, so I don't think they have figured it our either. They have more up-close, 1st hand experience, but ...

The other thing to think about, if Alt and Bowers are so great, how do we know that the teams drafting ahead of us aren't going to trade or take them. Some team with a QB,or a team that just decides that they don't like the QB's and would rather take a "can't miss" (which doesn't exist) guy.

And what if Harrison drops ... or a QB and a team wants to trade up ....

Lots to think about.

[DerwinBosa]

The enthusiasm for Bowers on this forum reminds a little bit of the love Tony Mandarich (before he became a complete bust) and Bo Jackson (a phenomenal athlete) received. I'm not saying Bowers will be either of them at his position. He's clearly regarded as the top tight end prospect in this draft for very good reason. If Harbaugh decides Bowers is the guy to pick at fifth overall or in a trade down, I'll be looking forward to watching him catch passes from Herbert.

I think the "generational talent" talk is over the top, though. Bowers is not a flawless prospect. I watch a lot of Georgia Bulldogs games and came away very impressed with him, but I wonder at times just how good he really is because there were many players who looked great in that system. People on this forum have also thrown around "great blocker" when describing Bowers. He's not. He seems to have the work ethic to improve in that area, and he doesn't suck at it all, but in the handful of times I focused on him blocking at the line of scrimmage I did not see greatness there. He's also not the ideal size for the position. That's not to say I can't be wrong about him not being the "generational talent" so many are claiming him to be. He could end up being as great as Tony Gonzalez, which would be awesome to have and well worth the fifth overall pick. I'm not a professional at evaluating players. Not even close. I just think at this point the idea that we HAVE to draft Bowers if he's available at our pick and can't consider anyone else is outrageous.

There are other players in this draft I'm more interested in because I think they could be just as good or better than Bowers at positions of greater value. That's not a knock on Bowers' ability. There's a reason why Kyle Pitts is the only tight end drafted in the top five in NFL history (I believe that's the case--others can prove me wrong if it's not). While the tight end has proven to be quite valuable for quarterbacks in these playoffs, the position overall will never be considered as important as others--pass-rusher stands out to me in this draft, with three of them who could end up being studs at the next level. Throw in the fact that George Kittle was drafted in the fifth, Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews in the third, Jake Ferguson in the fourth, Darren Waller in the sixth, etc., and it could be argued that drafting a tight end in the top ten is similar to picking a running back that high. Same goes for wide receiver. Recent history has shown you can find many more good-to-great players at those positions later than the first round in the draft.

[DerwinBosa]

The KC not being able to protect Mahommes in the SB is a little disingenuous.

Yes, they lost the game because of protection problems, I am not debating that.

However ... Kelce was the only O they had and the KC OL was fine-(ish) up to the game before, because they had a couple of starters injured.

Kelce was not the only weapon they had. Tyreek Hill was still a member of the Chiefs in that game.

I don't know how you consider my point disingenuous. It all starts up front.