I know who Haloti Ngata is. Hahaha.. I have been watching and following football and the draft for eons now. (In addition, you're unlikely to stump me on UW, OSU or UO guys being as I live in Washington just north of Portland, OR. So I see a shit ton load of those college games. (Not so many WSU, ironic since that is where I went to college).
When I say I'm not a pro at this I just mean, I never played, I've never broken down tape. I don't know what to look for exactly to see technique, etc. My understanding of "5 technique" "3 technique" etc is rudimentary. (I do eat this stuff up when I find information about it though, so I'm trying to learn more.) But my knowledge of NFL players and guys that get drafted is good. That is where I get sheepish about picking players I think we might take.
To my eyes, what we really are wanting is somebody who can step in and spell and eventually take over for Mebane. I think Philon can move in and be effective at Liugets spot. So, we need a big strong Nose type. Honestly, your evaluation is literally the only one I've seen that doesn't think he's a sure fire first rounder. Which is curious to me, because I really value your insight and opinion, you clearly have a ton of knowledge that I do not, and are always on the ball. So, I'm not trying to out football you or anything. I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I'm having trouble piecing it together with the guy I have seen a lot and the general consensus is all.
This is all likely academic anyway, it seems he will probably be gone before our pick.
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Originally posted by Screeme View Post
You don't actually need to watch all of them, one or two is probably enough.
When I read a lot of people's reviews of Vea, they keep seeing Haloti Ngata, the great Ravens player who is just signed with the Eagles. There are some physical similarities, but if you watch him play (DT, #96) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ear45a96pHc), he plays like an NFL DL. There was no projecting him being something that he wasn't. He needed to refine his technique and raise his level of play, but he was basically what you wanted in a DT.
It's not that I am totally against drafting Vea. I am against drafting him in the 1st round. I really don't like the idea of drafting a guy at #17 who is a huge project. There are other projects (Settle?) who are projects but can be had later in the draft. If Vea is still there in the 4th round (unlikely), I am totally onboard to draft him.
Vea is a fantastic physical specimen. I think, if you get everything right in coaching him, he can turn into a great player. But he is a project, and there are guys who have the physical skills like Vea every year and most never develop into anything. It's always a risk when you try to turn a player from what he is (a catcher) to a what you want him to be (penetrator).
I just don't think a 1st round guy is where you want to do it.Last edited by Steve; 04-10-2018, 05:40 AM.Leave a comment:
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I mean, I don't have any game tape to watch.. just highlight reels, which are pretty biased. im the first to admit, I'm not an expert at this. I rely on the impression I get from whatching Saturdays and a handful of media sources that have proven reliable over the many years I've followed the draft. I'm just saying, I watched him destroy people. Maybe you're right about the time it will take, but his ceiling is much higher than the other DTs. I almost feel like if we can't grab Vea at 17, we may as well grab VanderEsch or Evans.. and take Nnadi or Settle in the second.. because the drop isn't as far.Leave a comment:
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Go back and watch Vea.
Vea lets the OL fire off the line and catches them, and then sheds the block. Only after all that, does he start to run down the RB or QB. How many NFL RB and QB are going to let a 330lb DT run them down?
NFL DT that make plays fire off the line and attack the blockers, hitting a gap and filling it. You see Vea do a very little bit of that, but he has to do it on every play.
Danny Shelton did much the same thing as Vea when he was in Washington. IT took him 2 years in the NFL before he finally got his hands and feet to work together well enough to be an effective run-down player. Even then Shelton is more of an upfield player than Vea is at similar points. Danny Shelton is a great run down only player who has a similar playing style but is somewhat slower. Shelton will never turn into a pass rusher, even in NE.
Does Vea have the tools to be the next Haloti Ngata? Yes, he might even be a bit better athlete. But Vea is not nearly as far along as Ngata. Ngata was an upfield player who just exploded across the line at Oregon. Vea doesn't even get out of his stance until after Ngata made a lot of his plays. I get the comparisons, they are both Somoan and similar sizes, but Ngata was a far better player and technician than Vea is.
Da'Ron Payne is never going to be a 10-15 sack a year guy, but he spent a lot of time in team's backfield. He keeps his LB clean, holds at the point of attack, and can get penetration to disrupt the running game and push the middle of the pocket vs the pass. He isn't going to get a ton of sacks, but he gets a lot of pressures on the QB. Runs stunts with the LB and DE as part of the Alabama pressure package. Plays hard on every down and is an all-day guy. Can play along the line in pursuit. Reminds me of a young Reuben Davis, isn't going to get sacks himself, but often pushes the middle of the pocket to help the DE, or finishes off the QB if the DE make the QB step up. He steadily got better and better and really played well against Clemson and Georgia. He plays like an NFL player with a disruptive attack of the OL and knocks them back off the ball.
Hurst is the quickness, penetrating tackle. He can beat OL off the line or uses leverage to fight through blocks. Can be beaten physically, but it is not an all game long thing. When a guy jacks him up, he adjusts and gets back into the game. Is surprisingly strong and plays with really good leverage. Is not at as much of a disadvantage against the run as people suggest because of his lack of size. Has some size limitations, but not as bad as some people suggest. Very disruptive as a run defender and simply causes some running teams to "turtle up" on their running game because of the negative yards. Good pass rusher who will get better as he learns to use his hands.Leave a comment:
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I just think Steve is right about him, at the next level he’s a project, his game will need to be changed quite a lot, right down to how he uses those awesome muscles of his. He’ll be okay to start with, and hopefully way better in a couple years. IMHO. Payne looks much more ready now, and should have a similar ceiling. -
I feel like Liuget and Mebane needed so much covering for, it took away from what Bosa and Ingram do well. If our line is well rounded, and we have someone on the interior who has to be doubled and accounted for, it makes Bosa and Ingram better. I'm also skeptical of an article that says to be a good D, you can ignore aspects of defense. To be a great D, yards in any form should be a struggle.
I haven't changed my mind that I want Vea. I don't understand why everyone is so down on him. He's strong, athletic, and when I've watched him he just wrecks offensive linemen. He is who we need in the middle of the defense, and will make our edge players better.Leave a comment:
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I was thinking Bosa slides in, Chubb plays end. On some downs that could be exactly strengthening a weak position. But yeah, a high cost when we can sit tight and snag a top D guy anyway, way this draft likely shakes out. -
I wouldn't trade up for Chubb. I'd rather have a different position that can pass rush rather that a redundant position. And it would be at least two #1s, a very high cost. Also, strengthening your weakest position has more benefit than strengthening your strongest position. -
I did a previous post here where a PFF study showed pass rush skills in college had a strong correlation with pass rush skills in the pros. -
Why I like Payne as a DT in the 1st, he gets upfield better than Vea. I like Hurst’s college game and the way he can slice into a backfield, just not sure it will translate to the pros. Also I think the medical concern will be a non-factor, and he will be long gone by our pick, cuz I’m a tool, lol.
Would you trade up for a shot at Chubb?
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