OT: USA Women's and Men's Soccer Team

[Yubaking]

Plain and simple you have to cut the cord sometime. By quite a few accounts, Donovan hasn't been playing very well recently. His fitness is also very suspect per reports.

The only way the US program will improve is by giving all the young guys experience. Klinsman is looking toward the future. Plus, why does he need a washed up player that hasn't accomplished shit worldwide? It's not like we are talking about an old Pele or something. There's nothing in the US program that deserves to be protected, let alone an old player.

I get Donavan is the only recognizable player in the US, but isn't that the issue? They should be looking to improve the players worldwide and that only happens by playing its youth players.

The goal is to compete in the World Cup now not develop the team. The team can be developed 5 seconds after the World Cup ends. The "young guys" are not likely to play any more with or without Donovan. The guy that is a tough sell is Brad Davis, who is older than Donovan and not the creator of scoring opportunities that Donovan is. Nobody is suggesting that anyone be protected, just that Donovan would be much more useful to our team than Brad Davis.

[Bolt-O]

I definitely give Klinsmann the nod over anyone on who he believes are his best 23 for the WC final. He might have had superior talent with his German team, but they didn't tank when he was coach. Anyone who consistently beats El Tri gets a gold star from me! He's not coaching 'fantasy', he has to bring the best group of players and he probably believes that LD didn't do enough, or demonstrate the desire he wanted from the forward position at this time, and he's actually there with the team! We can argue that LD may be better than a particular mid-fielder based on recent play, but the last I saw Donovan in an International Friendly, he just didn't play well. It's still a shock that he's not playing, and everyone will second guess this until we see the team in a preliminary friendly... then we can talk!

[SFW]

Plain and simple you have to cut the cord sometime. By quite a few accounts, Donovan hasn't been playing very well recently. His fitness is also very suspect per reports.

The only way the US program will improve is by giving all the young guys experience. Klinsman is looking toward the future. Plus, why does he need a washed up player that hasn't accomplished shit worldwide? It's not like we are talking about an old Pele or something. There's nothing in the US program that deserves to be protected, let alone an old player.

I get Donavan is the only recognizable player in the US, but isn't that the issue? They should be looking to improve the players worldwide and that only happens by playing its youth players.

Also assuming anyone thinks they know about futbol than Klinsman is just ridiculous. If his decision was politics based, he would of kept Donavan on the team, not suffer the backlash he has. (Which I also think is comical, since those same people probably can't name a single player on the roster).

I agree with both of these. This isn't 2010, Donovan is not the player he used to be......not even close.

[Yubaking]

Also assuming anyone thinks they know about futbol than Klinsman is just ridiculous. If his decision was politics based, he would of kept Donavan on the team, not suffer the backlash he has. (Which I also think is comical, since those same people probably can't name a single player on the roster).

Beerman, your view ignores the outright hostility between Klinsmann and his family and Donovan. There is a palpable animus present. Look at Klinsmann's kid's tweet. It is very hostile in nature toward Donovan. Where do you think that level of hatred comes from?

Have you ever heard someone's kid say something that they obviously got from talking with their parents? There is no way I am buying that a teenage boy independently developed such a hatred for Donovan on his own absent significant personal contact with Donovan. So, again, where did he get it from? I'll give you three guesses and the first two do not count.

Things didn't work out between Donovan and Klinsmann in Germany several years ago and Klinsmann appears to have held that against Donovan ever since. There is clearly friction in their relationship.

Animus can definitely cloud independent thinking. Enter Brad Davis over Landon Donovan.

It isn't about what any of us knows versus what Klinsmann knows and whoever knows more is right. Having played for over 30 years, coached for several years, and watched all levels of soccer over many years, I know when a soccer decision or explanation makes sense and when it does not. I am here to tell you that for a number of reasons this one concerning Donovan does not.

And when you combine an adverse decision against Donovan that does not make sense with the fact there is a history of friction between Donovan and Klinsmann, the weight of the evidence is that the decision is likely more political and personal in nature than Klinsmann would care to admit.

[Yubaking]

I agree with both of these. This isn't 2010, Donovan is not the player he used to be......not even close.

Okay, it is tragic that you think we should begin rebuilding at the World Cup.

Nobody is saying that Donovan is the player he was in 2010 when he was the best player on the team. That never was the point. The point is that he could contribute more than most players could if allowed to play in a limited reserve role. He is among the best 23 and it is likely that he would be on the roster if the coach were anyone other than the one coach that has a personal axe to grind against Donovan.

[SFW]

Beerman, your view ignores the outright hostility between Klinsmann and his family and Donovan. There is a palpable animus present. Look at Klinsmann's kid's tweet. It is very hostile in nature toward Donovan. Where do you think that level of hatred comes from?

Have you ever heard someone's kid say something that they obviously got from talking with their parents? There is no way I am buying that a teenage boy independently developed such a hatred for Donovan on his own absent significant personal contact with Donovan. So, again, where did he get it from? I'll give you three guesses and the first two do not count.

Things didn't work out between Donovan and Klinsmann in Germany several years ago and Klinsmann appears to have held that against Donovan ever since. There is clearly friction in their relationship.

Animus can definitely cloud independent thinking. Enter Brad Davis over Landon Donovan.

It isn't about what any of us knows versus what Klinsmann knows and whoever knows more is right. Having played for over 30 years, coached for several years, and watched all levels of soccer over many years, I know when a soccer decision or explanation makes sense and when it does not. I am here to tell you that for a number of reasons this one concerning Donovan does not.

And when you combine an adverse decision against Donovan that does not make sense with the fact there is a history of friction between Donovan and Klinsmann, the weight of the evidence is that the decision is likely more political and personal in nature than Klinsmann would care to admit.

You got it exactly right. Klinsmann wants to sabotage his own team and profession by leaving Donovan off the team because of the well known personal vendetta he has against Landon. In fact he cut Landon to ensure Germany has an easier road in the WC. He is so ingenious that he got hired by the US just so he could sabotage the team and help the German team all along and at the same time he gets to get even with Landon Donovan by ruining his career.

Everything positive Klinsmann speaks in public about Donovan was also just part of the diversion and we all fell for it.....if it wasn't for his son messing up everything we all would still be clueless to his evil but ingenious plan.

[Yubaking]

I definitely give Klinsmann the nod over anyone on who he believes are his best 23 for the WC final. He might have had superior talent with his German team, but they didn't tank when he was coach. Anyone who consistently beats El Tri gets a gold star from me! He's not coaching 'fantasy', he has to bring the best group of players and he probably believes that LD didn't do enough, or demonstrate the desire he wanted from the forward position at this time, and he's actually there with the team! We can argue that LD may be better than a particular mid-fielder based on recent play, but the last I saw Donovan in an International Friendly, he just didn't play well. It's still a shock that he's not playing, and everyone will second guess this until we see the team in a preliminary friendly... then we can talk!

Again, my issues are 1) that the decision smells on its face and 2) there is evidence of significant animus exhibited toward Donovan by Klinsmann. These two together create the inference that the decision was likely more political/personal and not so much based upon an objective evaluation of Donovan.

[SFW]

Okay, it is tragic that you think we should begin rebuilding at the World Cup.

Nobody is saying that Donovan is the player he was in 2010 when he was the best player on the team. That never was the point. The point is that he could contribute more than most players could if allowed to play in a limited reserve role. He is among the best 23 and it is likely that he would be on the roster if the coach were anyone other than the one coach that has a personal axe to grind against Donovan.

When did I ever say they were rebuilding? I do not think by any means that cutting Landon causes the team to rebuild. Unfortunately the team is still building as it is not anywhere close to being good enough to compete for the World Cup title. However, if Klinsmann can keep getting young players like Green, Johannson, Brooks, Johnson, Chandler etc to play for our national team the future can become bright. Gedion Zelalem is the next big one to watch out for.

[Yubaking]

You got it exactly right. Klinsmann wants to sabotage his own team and profession by leaving Donovan off the team because of the well known personal vendetta he has against Landon. In fact he cut Landon to ensure Germany has an easier road in the WC. He is so ingenious that he got hired by the US just so he could sabotage the team and help the German team all along and at the same time he gets to get even with Landon Donovan by ruining his career.

Everything positive Klinsmann speaks in public about Donovan was also just part of the diversion and we all fell for it.....if it wasn't for his son messing up everything we all would still be clueless to his evil but ingenious plan.

Nice straw man. Who ever said anything about intentionally sabotaging the team or any of the other bullcrap you mentioned?

You've got to be kidding me if you think that there aren't political decisions made in sports when it comes to deciding which players play or get a roster spot. To the extent that a coach already does not care for a player, it increases the chance for a political result to be reached as opposed to a fair decision on the merits because the coach has to overcome his bias to reach an objective decision.

Simply put, there is evidence that Klinsmann does not like Donovan and he found a way to rationalize in his own mind how Donovan should not be a part of the team. The rationalization is suspect and the animus makes the result even more questionable.

There is plenty of evidence of the friction between Donovan and Klinsmann that goes back several years when Donovan played in Germany. The son's tweet just underscores and highlights the friction that was already there.

[Yubaking]

When did I ever say they were rebuilding? I do not think by any means that cutting Landon causes the team to rebuild. Unfortunately the team is still building as it is not anywhere close to being good enough to compete for the World Cup title. However, if Klinsmann can keep getting young players like Green, Johannson, Brooks, Johnson, Chandler etc to play for our national team the future can become bright. Gedion Zelalem is the next big one to watch out for.

You quoted Beerman's statements with approval. Beerman suggested that we play all the young players (apparently regardless of ability and chance that gives us to win). When you ignore your veterans and develop your young players whether or not they give you the best chance to win, that is rebuilding. I agree that some of the younger players have potential. In fact, I am not even critical of the move to get Green to play for us.

[Beerman]

Beerman, your view ignores the outright hostility between Klinsmann and his family and Donovan. There is a palpable animus present. Look at Klinsmann's kid's tweet. It is very hostile in nature toward Donovan. Where do you think that level of hatred comes from?

Have you ever heard someone's kid say something that they obviously got from talking with their parents? There is no way I am buying that a teenage boy independently developed such a hatred for Donovan on his own absent significant personal contact with Donovan. So, again, where did he get it from? I'll give you three guesses and the first two do not count.

Things didn't work out between Donovan and Klinsmann in Germany several years ago and Klinsmann appears to have held that against Donovan ever since. There is clearly friction in their relationship.

Animus can definitely cloud independent thinking. Enter Brad Davis over Landon Donovan.

It isn't about what any of us knows versus what Klinsmann knows and whoever knows more is right. Having played for over 30 years, coached for several years, and watched all levels of soccer over many years, I know when a soccer decision or explanation makes sense and when it does not. I am here to tell you that for a number of reasons this one concerning Donovan does not.

And when you combine an adverse decision against Donovan that does not make sense with the fact there is a history of friction between Donovan and Klinsmann, the weight of the evidence is that the decision is likely more political and personal in nature than Klinsmann would care to admit.

I honestly don't care about any of that. And really even if there is some animosity, who's to say Donavan isn't to blame? Again, what in the world makes you think that Donavan deserves ANY recognition or praise for being the US's most recognizable player (by default). He's simply not good when compared to anyone internationally (where he already flamed out). He could be the biggest diva on the team and we wouldn't know it. Maybe Klinsman is trying to create a different team atmosphere?

Again I don't know. What I do know is that Klinsman has played at the highest levels and coached at the highest levels. He also has an immaculate reputation internationally. Not that I care about USA soccer, but I would sure as hell take his word and judgement over ANYONE else. Not to mention the media fools that are just talking out of their ass and likely don't even cover the sport internationally.

The only reason that there's an uproar is that Donavan is the only recognizable player on the team BY DEFAULT. He could even get in shape to play a full game. Why the hell would you take him? If anything it would have sent the wrong message to take a guy that couldn't even get in shape. Now that would have been preferential treatment.

He's taking the guys that he feels gives them the best shot to win now and in the future.

[Beerman]

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/3433

He's been terrible this year. 5th rated player on his own team, which is bad to begin with.