OT: USA Women's and Men's Soccer Team

[thelightningwill]

I think he is/was referring to the casual American fan.

I've never heard of any of these guys before I read this thread.
I'm not sure I'm a casual American fan. The only soccer games I've attended - not counting the games I played in when I was 5 or the one San Diego Soccers game I went to see with my team - were in the middle of Mexico. And, then, I only liked those games because the waiter would bring us tequila and the fans were insane. Singing songs about how the other team's fans were a bunch of assholes was pretty fun. Anyway, what I'm saying is I'm not much of a fan.

[Beerman]

I've never heard of any of these guys before I read this thread.
I'm not sure I'm a casual American fan. The only soccer games I've attended - not counting the games I played in when I was 5 or the one San Diego Soccers game I went to see with my team - were in the middle of Mexico. And, then, I only liked those games because the waiter would bring us tequila and the fans were insane. Singing songs about how the other team's fans were a bunch of assholes was pretty fun. Anyway, what I'm saying is I'm not much of a fan.

You aren't very different than 90% of the US. Yes, I was referring to US fans when talking about Donovan. My point being that there's only been an uproar because he's the only player the majority of people know. Not to mention a significant reason given for him being left off the roster has nothing to do with his current ability to play the game.

Klinsman, I believe, made a purely game related decision to keep him off the squad based on his recent, poor play. (Again, based on match ratings and reviews of his game play. Watching MLS hahahahahahahahahaahahahah).

[thelightningwill]

You aren't very different than 90% of the US. Yes, I was referring to US fans when talking about Donovan. My point being that there's only been an uproar because he's the only player the majority of people know. Not to mention a significant reason given for him being left off the roster has nothing to do with his current ability to play the game.

Klinsman, I believe, made a purely game related decision to keep him off the squad based on his recent, poor play. (Again, based on match ratings and reviews of his game play. Watching MLS hahahahahahahahahaahahahah).

I wouldn't even know who Donovan is if I didn't read this thread. I still don't know who he is other than he's apparently a soccer player and an American and not going to the World Cup.

I know Jurgen Klinsmann because I was at a World Cup party when the Germans got squashed by the Brazilians. There were a few Germans there telling me all about him.

[kets]

Didn't Germany 4 years ago and the Netherlands 8 years ago leave off most or all of their veteran stars in order to go with youth, and didn't both make the final that year?

No the Dutch made the final 4 years ago, and that definitely was with some veteran stars. Germans didnt bring Michael Ballack 4 years ago (their aging star), and actually played very well without him, though not making it to the final.

[Fleet]

Wouldnt Germany's and Nederlands scrubs be the stars of the USNT?

[Beerman]

Wouldnt Germany's and Nederlands scrubs be the stars of the USNT?

You can say that about many nations. Fact remains that the best athletes in the US choose to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. Around the world the best athletes play soccer.

The player development in the US is also crap comparatively.

[thelightningwill]

You can say that about many nations. Fact remains that the best athletes in the US choose to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB. Around the world the best athletes play soccer.

The player development in the US is also crap comparatively.

I bet we do better at soccer (their sport) than they do at American football (a more advanced sport).

[Yubaking]

I honestly don't care about any of that. And really even if there is some animosity, who's to say Donavan isn't to blame? Again, what in the world makes you think that Donavan deserves ANY recognition or praise for being the US's most recognizable player (by default). He's simply not good when compared to anyone internationally (where he already flamed out). He could be the biggest diva on the team and we wouldn't know it. Maybe Klinsman is trying to create a different team atmosphere?

Again I don't know. What I do know is that Klinsman has played at the highest levels and coached at the highest levels. He also has an immaculate reputation internationally. Not that I care about USA soccer, but I would sure as hell take his word and judgement over ANYONE else. Not to mention the media fools that are just talking out of their ass and likely don't even cover the sport internationally.

The only reason that there's an uproar is that Donavan is the only recognizable player on the team BY DEFAULT. He could even get in shape to play a full game. Why the hell would you take him? If anything it would have sent the wrong message to take a guy that couldn't even get in shape. Now that would have been preferential treatment.

He's taking the guys that he feels gives them the best shot to win now and in the future.

I do not care about who is to blame either. I care about us not carrying the best 23 into the World Cup.

Klinsmann mysteriously labeled Donovan as a forward only, completely ignoring his versatility as a midfielder. In fact, Donovan's best position is left sided attacking midfielder. Maybe Klinsmann's next move will be to call Howard a forward and cut him because he is not among the best 4 forwards. Such a move would make about as much sense.

You and some others on this board are discussing going with youth. Yet the team kept Brad Davis who is older than Donovan?! Davis, while a fine MLS player, has done next to nothing at the international level. Did he suddenly get better at age 32?! Of course not. Is he a part of the long term future of U.S. soccer? Of course not. By contrast, Donovan is our all time leader in goals and assists at the international level. Donovan is the more versatile player and the much greater threat of the two players.

Further, there is nothing that shows that Donovan could not play 90 minutes. Donovan, historically a very honest person when it comes to his level of play, stated that he felt he was among the top 23 and even felt like he should have been in contention to start based solely upon his recent performance in training versus the other players.

Also, even if Donovan's minutes had to be limited, so what! 30 minutes of Donovan is better than 90 minutes of a lot of players. That's why you keep him. He can provide a spark to the team when it needs one. Davis, on the other hand, lacks that ability. What good does a guy that can run for 90 minutes, but lacks play making ability do when you need a goal late? Not much.

So, again, the decision is a bad one on the merits made by a coach with a bias against Donovan. It is not the right decision made by an unbiased coach and that is the problem with it.

[kets]

I bet we do better at soccer (their sport) than they do at American football (a more advanced sport).

No surprise, nobody plays American football across the pond. While a lot of people do play soccer here.

BTW what do you mean by more advanced sport? I think you are underestimating the skill it takes to play soccer at a high level.

[thelightningwill]

No surprise, nobody plays American football across the pond. While a lot of people do play soccer here.

BTW what do you mean by more advanced sport? I think you are underestimating the skill it takes to play soccer at a high level.

Soccer came first. Football is higher on the scale of evolution.

When I went to Mexico, I learned everything there was to learn about the rules of soccer by attending one match.
After 35 years of watching football, I still don't get some of the shit that goes on.

[SFW]

I do not care about who is to blame either. I care about us not carrying the best 23 into the World Cup.

Klinsmann mysteriously labeled Donovan as a forward only, completely ignoring his versatility as a midfielder. In fact, Donovan's best position is left sided attacking midfielder. Maybe Klinsmann's next move will be to call Howard a forward and cut him because he is not among the best 4 forwards. Such a move would make about as much sense.
.

Huh?

[kets]

Soccer came first. Football is higher on the scale of evolution.

When I went to Mexico, I learned everything there was to learn about the rules of soccer by attending one match.
After 35 years of watching football, I still don't get some of the shit that goes on.

There is no scale of evolution. Really old-fashioned thinking about biology. I'd be happy to start that discussion any time, but I do want to warn you, I have a PhD in Biology.

And I like football, just like I like soccer, but to argue that its opaque rules are the reason you like it sounds a bit weird.