POLL: What Is The Bolts' Main Problem? (+ Post - Week 3 Discussion)

[Topcat]

Still need to move Jammer to safety

Has he learned to turn his head in his old age?

[Silversurfer]

Throw conditioning in there, team looks gassed in the 4th quarter as usual. When your tired mistakes happen, Lynn needs to work on conditioning drills have these guys throwing up in practice.

[Bolt4Knob]

Not when the team who created the turnover runs it back to your 5 yard line. The offense turning over the ball is not trained or built to tackle the way the defense is. Punting generally gives you a better chance to cover the yards gained by the receiving team.

Now in the case of the Chargers, it might be a similar outcome, since our Special teams is suspect.

Yes - this in a nutshell. I would rather have Ty Long directionally punt with guys who should be used to tackling.

[Guest]

Smith was 26TD 5Int in 2017, and he is always low turnover and won a lot of games. Only 1 losing season in his last 10 years. Under rated QB which is wierd because he went #1.

Mahomes is a low turnover QB so far.
50TD and 12int in 2018
26TD and 5int in 2019
9TD and 0int in 2020

Herbert had 33 throws in start 1, and then 49 throws in start 2 and ended up with Two 300 yard games......doesnt seem like Lynn is holding the kid back too much. Herbert seems like he will be a low turnover QB after he get more experience. Lynn hates turnovers and he wants his QBs to throw it all over the field if they can. He just wants it to his guys.

JH10 needs to keep his turnover down and he will win more games. But he is a rookie.

The obvious point of my discussion of Mahomes and Smith is that turnovers are not everything no matter how much one poster wants them to be everything. Mahomes had more than twice as many INTs as Smith and is still viewed by everyone as way better than Smith. We have the same thing happening here with Taylor in the Smith role and Herbert in the Mahomes role. Herbert is clearly better, but likely will turn the ball over a little bit more than the no risk taking human drive staller that is Taylor.

Although we got lucky and won the game at the end, Taylor's inability to move the ball against the reigning worst team in the league very nearly cost us that game despite the team being +2 in turnover differential. With Herbert playing, I think we would have smoked the Bengals, who were easily the worst team we have played.

[Critty]

Throw conditioning in there, team looks gassed in the 4th quarter as usual. When your tired mistakes happen, Lynn needs to work on conditioning drills have these guys throwing up in practice.

You get tired when offense is turning it over and you having to defend all those extra posessions.
if the offense can drive even if they settle for a FG then defense can get some rest. Any Defense gets gassed when they are defending 39 minutes while the offense only possess the rock for 21 minutes.

Field position, time of possession, 3rd down offense and defense, pre snap penalty, run game, special teams and Turnovers. This won't ever change. You want the team to win as many of these battles as possible. Turnovers and 3rd down O & D being the 2 most important that impact field position and time of possession.

Lynn know the keys to winning any game. And his game plan for the champion KC team was way better than the other teams KC played in Texans and Ravens.

Chef Lynn is cooking up a winner.
The problem is Chargers fans are so hungry for a champion they keep complaining every play of every game.
Rookie QB is getting his reps in live action.
Give him time to get used to his new kitchen and pantry. And watch him make BBQ chicken of opponets on gameday.

[Critty]

The obvious point of my discussion of Mahomes and Smith is that turnovers are not everything no matter how much one poster wants them to be everything. Mahomes had more than twice as many INTs as Smith and is still viewed by everyone as way better than Smith. We have the same thing happening here with Taylor in the Smith role and Herbert in the Mahomes role. Herbert is clearly better, but likely will turn the ball over a little bit more than the no risk taking human drive staller that is Taylor.

Although we got lucky and won the game at the end, Taylor's inability to move the ball against the reigning worst team in the league very nearly cost us that game despite the team being +2 in turnover differential. With Herbert playing, I think we would have smoked the Bengals, who were easily the worst team we have played.

Not a solid argument. You left out the other part...he also had twice as many TDs.
So yeah he can have more turnovers and so can Herbert but he better have a bunch more TDs.

And did you notice Alex Smith 2017 26TD 5INT and Mahomes 2019 26TD and 5INT
same TD and INT numbers.

The point of turnovers is correct.
It is typically the most impactful. Not the only impactful part of game, All plays matter.
The TD to INT ratio has to be great. TDs and TURNOVERS matter the most.

If you can throw for 40 plus TDs you can have a few more turnovers and still be ok.
But you cant turn it over 20plus times either no matter how many TD you throw. Just makes winning consistently way too difficult.

[foreigner]

AL

[Guest]

Not a solid argument. You left out the other part...he also had twice as many TDs.
So yeah he can have more turnovers and so can Herbert but he better have a bunch more TDs.

And did you notice Alex Smith 2017 26TD 5INT and Mahomes 2019 26TD and 5INT
same TD and INT numbers.

The point of turnovers is correct.
It is typically the most impactful. Not the only impactful part of game, All plays matter.
The TD to INT ratio has to be great. TDs and TURNOVERS matter the most.

If you can throw for 40 plus TDs you can have a few more turnovers and still be ok.
But you cant turn it over 20plus times either no matter how many TD you throw. Just makes winning consistently way too difficult.

Your post is agreeing with me.

My point is that it is asinine to examine turnovers as the only factor that matters. Everybody agrees that turnovers are a factor, but where I part company from some is that some appear to be looking at turnovers to the complete exclusion of all other factors.

I have examined this issue from both a team and QB standpoint. Late in the 2018 season and in the playoffs, both the Chargers and Patriots beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead despite both teams being -2 against the Chiefs in turnover differential. If turnovers are the deciding factor, then how do results like that happen with the regularity that they do? The answer is that turnovers are a factor, but not the factor. Other factors in the game can cause turnovers to be overcome.

Regarding QBs, you are proving my point about turnovers being capable of being overcome. Patrick Mahomes (2018) versus Alex Smith (2017) is a perfect example of that, which is precisely why I cited that example. That same type of situation is happening right now with Tyrod Taylor and Justin Herbert. One QB is turning the ball over a little more, but he is also outplaying the other QB even with the turnovers factored into the equation. And that statistical gap is only going to widen over time. In other words, it is not all about the turnovers to the exclusion of other factors.

Lastly, the larger the turnover differential between QBs the increasingly better the QB turning the ball over more must play to overcome the turnover difference and still be better than the QB turning the ball over less. Thus, Mahomes was able to overcome throwing 2.4 times as many INTs as Smith (7 more overall) because he moved the ball more effectively than Smith and threw for many more TDs than Smith.

[Critty]

Your post is agreeing with me.

My point is that it is asinine to examine turnovers as the only factor that matters. Everybody agrees that turnovers are a factor, but where I part company from some is that some appear to be looking at turnovers to the complete exclusion of all other factors.

I have examined this issue from both a team and QB standpoint. Late in the 2018 season and in the playoffs, both the Chargers and Patriots beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead despite both teams being -2 against the Chiefs in turnover differential. If turnovers are the deciding factor, then how do results like that happen with the regularity that they do? The answer is that turnovers are a factor, but not the factor. Other factors in the game can cause turnovers to be overcome.

Regarding QBs, you are proving my point about turnovers being capable of being overcome. Patrick Mahomes (2018) versus Alex Smith (2017) is a perfect example of that, which is precisely why I cited that example. That same type of situation is happening right now with Tyrod Taylor and Justin Herbert. One QB is turning the ball over a little more, but he is also outplaying the other QB even with the turnovers factored into the equation. And that statistical gap is only going to widen over time. In other words, it is not all about the turnovers to the exclusion of other factors.

Lastly, the larger the turnover differential between QBs the increasingly better the QB turning the ball over more must play to overcome the turnover difference and still be better than the QB turning the ball over less. Thus, Mahomes was able to overcome throwing 2.4 times as many INTs as Smith (7 more overall) because he moved the ball more effectively than Smith and threw for many more TDs than Smith.

You are arguing with a ghost in your own imagination.

Turnover are hugely impactful game changing errors.
And if Herbert elimated the one interception vs KC that is a win. And if he eliminate one of his turnovers vs Carolina that is a win. 2 plays and two wins.

The QB is the one person who touches the rock every offensive snap. And possessions of the rock allows defense to rest and offense to score. A turnover swings momentum to opponent more than any other single play in the game.

So I would say winning the turnover battle which Lynn wants to do is the 1st priority as it should be.

I think your spinning the point of turnover battle as the top priority into the only thing that matters in the game. And then making a case that other parts of game matter too. And saying see...im right.
Well your opinion is correct for you. But I don't subscribe to it. I am definitely putting turnovers at the top of list of importance in winning football games consistently.


:More Q Please:

[gzubeck]

You are arguing with a ghost in your own imagination.

Turnover are hugely impactful game changing errors.
And if Herbert elimated the one interception vs KC that is a win. And if he eliminate one of his turnovers vs Carolina that is a win. 2 plays and two wins.

Solid possibility. Sorry, this is a team loss...too many mistakes by the rest of the team to overcome.

The QB is the one person who touches the rock every offensive snap. And possessions of the rock allows defense to rest and offense to score. A turnover swings momentum to opponent more than any other single play in the game.

So does going 3 and out and field position. Herbert is the least of our worries!

So I would say winning the turnover battle which Lynn wants to do is the 1st priority as it should be.

Chicken or the egg argument! With a better overall and healthy team the turnover battle will be by default. No one on defense is making big plays other than stopages for field goals.

I think your spinning the point of turnover battle as the top priority into the only thing that matters in the game. And then making a case that other parts of game matter too. And saying see...im right.
Well your opinion is correct for you. But I don't subscribe to it. I am definitely putting turnovers at the top of list of importance in winning football games consistently.

He is right! Circular argument. Putting more points on the board than your opponent wins you games. If you have 0 turnovers and zero offensive production you lose!

:More Q Please:

:cheers:

[Critty]

:cheers:

:que:

Well damn. You went to if you score ZERO it doesn't matter if you have ZERO turnovers.

You could have also said you can turn it over every single time, but if your defense hold the opponent to Zero and special team returns one for a TD. You win 7-0. Thus proving turnovers dont really matter. Points matter.

You win this round.
And there was a great prize, but sorry I can't in good conscience give you the prize because you might fumble it and since I still believe turnovers have a huge tendency to be impactful momentum swinging plays that turn wins into losses......i just don't want to see you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with a butterfinger moment.
:hello:

[gzubeck]

:que:

Well damn. You went to if you score ZERO it doesn't matter if you have ZERO turnovers.

You could have also said you can turn it over every single time, but if your defense hold the opponent to Zero and special team returns one for a TD. You win 7-0. Thus proving turnovers dont really matter. Points matter.

You win this round.
And there was a great prize, but sorry I can't in good conscience give you the prize because you might fumble it and since I still believe turnovers have a huge tendency to be impactful momentum swinging plays that turn wins into losses......i just don't want to see you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with a butterfinger moment.
:hello:

I have seen games in really bad weather won 6-3! Haven't you ever hear of the phrase " when being chased by a bear I don't have to outrun the bear I only have to outrun you!" Same difference in football....the winner is the one with the most points. Herbert offers more positives than negatives vs. Tyrod who gives you one positive and more negatives.