Patriots at Chargers - Game Day Thread!

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I am definitely serious that you cornered the market on foolish arguments with your mentioning of Brady and Wynn in the same breath as Allen and Jenkins as if there were any comparison at all. Like I said, whatever foolish arguments I may have made, I can't compete with that level of foolishness.

Oh but you can! When you think he was comparing the career trajectory of Allen vs a HOFer instead of on the basis of draft position. You'd have to be a total dullard to thibk that's what he was doing.

I was serious about your utter failure to understand the trade you suggested from the other team's perspective. Allen adds nothing to the Saints because he could only fill the role of Colston in the Saints offense.

And Jimmy Graham couldn't help us bc we have Gates and Green. And Revis couldn't help us bc we have Flowers.

Allen isn't filling the role of the two speedy young WRs (Stills and Cooks) who are both perfect for clearing out the shallow areas for Graham to operate. Allen is not going to offer the running aspect of Cooks' game with his 10+ YPC average on 7 carries in 10 games. Allen isn't going to match Cooks' 4.33 speed or Stills' 4.38 speed, which is perfect for carpet ball.

Allen brings nothing to the table vs Stills and Cooks. Who is the #1 WR in NO?

And that competition is too close to warrant the Saints trading away Jenkins to get Allen.

BC a real trade is being proposed. Obtuse much?

But they would lose their current starter and projected starter next year at NT in such a trade. You can tell what the team is doing with Bunkley's contract 10 miles away. He is dirt cheap this year and costs them something like $3+M more in base salary next year for an aging veteran. It shouldn't be too difficult to imagine that Bunkley is as good as gone unless either 1) he restructures or 2) the Saints dump Ryan (who has been openly defensive of Jenkins) and/or dump the 3-4. And if Bunkley is gone, who is going to be their starting NT in 2015? Could it possibly be Jenkins?

Goddamn I wish we had Jenkins!

If they want another WR, the Saints will just draft one as they have in each of the past two seasons. Why would a team choose to deal with the difficulty of finding a comparatively scarce legitimate NFL NT instead of simply drafting a comparatively dime a dozen position like WR. If they miss the playoffs, they will be picking well within the top 16 and could likely get a Devante Parker in the first round or maybe Sammy Coates in the second based upon current CBS rankings. If they make the playoffs, they could likely get a DGB or Jaelen Strong in round 1. I would take any of those guys over Allen right now and I am not mentioning Kevin White because I do not care for him as much but he is also highly rated.

OMG make it stop.

[Wheels]

Allen is productive, but the Saints would not do the trade that was suggested for the reasons that I have identified. And how teams see players going forward is entirely relevant to what that team is willing or unwilling to do with respect to that player. The Saints spent considerable draft currency to trade back into the third round to get Jenkins, which shows they valued him then. He played well for them as a rookie, showing his potential. With NT being so difficult to fill and scarce in the draft and free agency in terms real quality, unless another team improved drastically at another position, the Saints aren't going to part with Jenkins unless they stop believing in him or change their defensive scheme such that what he offers as a zero technique NT are no longer of value to the team.

I think Bunkley's contract tells us at least when the current one was made that the team then thought that Jenkins would be their man going forward because it is set up to make Bunkley a salary cap casualty next year.

I think reasonable predictions can be made based upon an interpretation of known factors. the prediction may or may not come to pass, but please do not suggest for one second that my view is not carefully considered even if you see things differently.

Finally, I did give you a bunch of evidence regarding why Cooks should be viewed as the superior player. Cooks has better physical tools. He is way faster than Allen, like the difference between Addae and Rivers faster. Cooks was on pace to catch more passes than Allen did as a rookie before he broke his thumb. Cooks is a threat as a ball carrier on running plays as evidenced by his 10+ YPC on 7 carries. Cooks is more of a deep/breakaway threat than Allen. He already has more 40+ yard catches than Allen does in his entire career despite playing in only about one-third of the number of games. In the Combine, Cooks hands appeared to be better than Allen's. Cooks was recognized as a first round talent in a draft loaded with productive rookie WRs. Allen was regarded as a third round talent in a draft more shallow at WR than the 2014 draft. Cooks appears quicker than Allen. Cooks had superior production in college than Allen. As I said, someone please tell me one thing that Allen does better than Cooks. I do not see a single one.

No evidence. Sheesh!

Cooks is also faster than Jerry Rice. Cooks also might be injury prone. He didn't finish his rookie season, while Allen did, and put those very good reception numbers on the books.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I think reasonable predictions can be made based upon an interpretation of known factors. the prediction may or may not come to pass, but please do not suggest for one second that my view is not carefully considered even if you see things differently.

Oh, I know it is carefully considered. Carefully considered bullshit.

Yes reasonable predictions can be made from known facts. The problem is that you confuse your opinions (often based upon nothing more than...your opinion) with facts and then use them to create elaborate constructs that get knocked down very easily when the opinion-based foundation is removed. Sadly, you never seem to be aware of this or want to be, so you keep making the same mistake over and over.

Finally, I did give you a bunch of evidence regarding why Cooks should be viewed as the superior player.

No, except for Cooks' speed.

Cooks has better physical tools. He is way faster than Allen, like the difference between Addae and Rivers faster.

Usain Bolt is faster than both of them and yet both players are better receivers than Bolt. See? This is what I am talking about. It's child's play.

Cooks was on pace to catch more passes than Allen did as a rookie before he broke his thumb.

Actually, this is a fabrication. Cooks averaged 5.3 catches in his ten games. At this rate, if had played the three more games that Allen played his rookie season, he would have caught 69. Allen caught 71. Close, but alas, no cigar *frowny face*

Cooks is a threat as a ball carrier on running plays as evidenced by his 10+ YPC on 7 carries.

OK, great.

Cooks is more of a deep/breakaway threat than Allen. He already has more 40+ yard catches than Allen does in his entire career despite playing in only about one-third of the number of games.

OK. does this make him a better player or receiver? Was Alvin Harper better than Charlie Joiner? It makes him a different kind of player. And you have already mentioned the differences in the NO and SD offenses. Strike 2.

In the Combine, Cooks hands appeared to be better than Allen's.

See, this is an opinion. It is distinguished from a fact. And you actually remember over two years how each player performed at the combine? Please.

Cooks was recognized as a first round talent in a draft loaded with productive rookie WRs. Allen was regarded as a third round talent in a draft more shallow at WR than the 2014 draft.

This is an outright prevarication. Allen was thought to be a first round talent who slipped due to injury. Several teams likely now regret failing to take a chance on Allen bc of his performance to date.

Cooks appears quicker than Allen.

:fc:

Cooks had superior production in college than Allen.

Now this is a fact. Cooks had 21 more catches, 702 more rec yards, averaged 2 yards more per catch and 7 more touchdowns in 5 more games. On the face, yes, better. But basically at parity. Not a huge difference. I wonder how those school's offenses differed?

As I said, someone please tell me one thing that Allen does better than Cooks. I do not see a single one.

Of course you don't. You only mentioned those dimensions on which Cooks appeared to be a better player. Many are your opinions or 'appeared' or you 'believe' or 'think'. On at least one, there isn't a wide gulf at all. And there are others you don't even consider. This is 'analysis' for you. Reach a conclusion. Cherry pick the data that supports that conclusion. Fill in the rest with lies and opinions and dress them up as facts.

No evidence. Sheesh!

Sheesh is the best work you've done here.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

You are not being objective about what the Saints' needs are, what their depth is, how they could account/adjust for such a trade, which position is easier for them to fill, what their scheme is, what their plans for Jenkins

You do realize that this commentary unwinds your whole argument that Allen wash't as good of a player based on his draft position, right?

[KNSD]

Who is this Jenkins dude anyways? Doesn't New Orleans have the worst defense of this century? What's the comparison here?

Edit: You mean this dude who hasn't started [FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME] for two years?

http://www.nfl.com/player/johnjenkins/2539231/profile

And Cooks? The FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK by the Saints? That dude? Value pick there. Chargers got more out of their third round pick last year than NO has gotten out of Cooks.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

7 games started in two years 1 pass defensed no sacks 38 combined tackles. Boy we sure made out with Allen! THat guy Jenkens stats look Mathews-esk!

[sandiego17]

Cooks is also faster than Jerry Rice.

Are you trying to say Allen IS GOING TO BE JERRY RICE. No? Nevermind then, carry on.

Thank you for joining the level of foolishness.

[Boltimore]

Where are the Modes? Please kill this thread.

[Mister Hoarse]

This thread is gonna lap the new gameday thread.
Maybe I will just post in here instead of starting a new one.

[thelightningwill]

This thread is gonna lap the new gameday thread.
Maybe I will just post in here instead of starting a new one.

Manning sucks.
Or Mannings suck.