OT My Thoughts on Trevor Lawrence

[like54ninjas]

Nobody has crowned him as the GOAT. I have stated that Lawrence may have the highest upside of any QB ever to enter the league. But as others have noted, there are many factors that contribute to a QB's overall level of success.

Without McDaniels' system, Brady's stats would be nothing special in terms of quality of QB play. The same can be said for Brees, who could not run our system as well as Rivers did, but found Payton. Assuming lengthy careers, both QBs would still have great gross production stats, but not with the same overall quality.

These are assertions not facts.
TB12 won 3 SB in 4 years and 9-0 playoff record with Charlie Weiss as Offensive Coordinator for example.

[dmac_bolt]

That being said, there have been many "sure things" drafted in the NFL that have been flops. Paging Tony Mandarich!

I don’t get the point of all of these Captain Critic and Captain Obvious proclamations about TL. I don’t even care about TL - what am i doing in the middle of this shit for no apparent purpose or reason at all?

fuck - I’m out of here. TL haters and TL knobbers can have at it

[Guest]

These are assertions not facts.
TB12 won 3 SB in 4 years and 9-0 playoff record with Charlie Weiss as Offensive Coordinator for example.

Brady did not have a single elite season until 2007 when he had both McDaniels' system and Moss, so there is a factual basis for the alternate reality hypothesis that I suggested. Similarly, Brees did not do as well as Rivers running Norv Turner's offense. He did much better in Payton's system. So there is a factual basis for that assertion as well.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team or a successful playoff team does not define the quality of a QB's play as it is entirely possible for a team to be successful in spite of the play of its QB.

Brady himself was only good, not great in his first three Super Bowl seasons.

[21&500]

They aren't in our division so they aren't a rival imo but yes, I like to beat every team.
. Meyer didn't have a chance to draft Herbert.

He didn’t but I suspect the LAC HC job was his if he wanted it. Remember Urban had a last minute call with an unknown team before taking the Jags job? I’m almost certain that was Spanos on the other end of the line.
It’s reasonable to choose the jags over us I suppose but imo it’ll prove to be the wrong choice
Trevor better be the elite NFL talent he’s projected to be because Herbert showed all he needed to his rookie season to project his game in the ensuing years.

and Bosa!! How do you ignore your former night in shinning armor!?!

[FoutsFan]

Nobody has crowned him as the GOAT. I have stated that Lawrence may have the highest upside of any QB ever to enter the league. But as others have noted, there are many factors that contribute to a QB's overall level of success.

Without McDaniels' system, Brady's stats would be nothing special in terms of quality of QB play. The same can be said for Brees, who could not run our system as well as Rivers did, but found Payton. Assuming lengthy careers, both QBs would still have great gross production stats, but not with the same overall quality.

You said he was under hyped. I said no way in hell. He is so over hyped, to the point that he would have to be the best ever to live up to it.

Your posts have been all over as well. If mine have been all over it has been following yours and mocking absurdity with absurdity.

My point in mocking your TL knob slobbing has just been to point out lets let him play a down first before we crown him as the greatest.

[like54ninjas]

Brady did not have a single elite season until 2007 when he had both McDaniels' system and Moss, so there is a factual basis for the alternate reality hypothesis that I suggested. Similarly, Brees did not do as well as Rivers running Norv Turner's offense. He did much better in Payton's system. So there is a factual basis for that assertion as well.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team or a successful playoff team does not define the quality of a QB's play as it is entirely possible for a team to be successful in spite of the play of its QB.

Brady himself was only good, not great in his first three Super Bowl seasons.

Your “elite” season is only concerned with stats.
Why did TB12 blowup in 2007? Joshie boy or the fact that Randy Moss joined the squad and produced almost 1500 yards and 23 TDs.
Give it a rest with stats. They are just one small aspect of playing football.
How many SB did NE win before or after TB12? 0 is the answer.
In Brady’s 18 years of being the starting QB for the patsies he accumulated 6 SB wins, 9 SB appearances, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 3 1st Team AP, 2 NFL O MVP, 1 NFL CBPOY, and on both of the NFL All-Decade teams of the 2000’s and 2010’s.
You’re trying to down play him as not elite/GOAT is comical and makes you look like a child throwing a tantrum.

I love Phil but Rivers is not a top 15-20 NFL All-Time QB. These players transcend their team, era, and produce big game wins. PR never did this consistently.

[like54ninjas]

Brady did not have a single elite season until 2007 when he had both McDaniels' system and Moss, so there is a factual basis for the alternate reality hypothesis that I suggested. Similarly, Brees did not do as well as Rivers running Norv Turner's offense. He did much better in Payton's system. So there is a factual basis for that assertion as well.

Being on a Super Bowl winning team or a successful playoff team does not define the quality of a QB's play as it is entirely possible for a team to be successful in spite of the play of its QB.

Brady himself was only good, not great in his first three Super Bowl seasons.

Yes in a single season (2 for Eli) not consistently over 20 years.
The occasional Dilfer, Eli, Johnson, McMahon, or Flaco get a win but look at the defenses that actually won those SB.

[Boltjolt]

He didn’t but I suspect the LAC HC job was his if he wanted it. Remember Urban had a last minute call with an unknown team before taking the Jags job? I’m almost certain that was Spanos on the other end of the line.
It’s reasonable to choose the jags over us I suppose but imo it’ll prove to be the wrong choice
Trevor better be the elite NFL talent he’s projected to be because Herbert showed all he needed to his rookie season to project his game in the ensuing years.

and Bosa!! How do you ignore your former night in shinning armor!?!

I tend to think not but it don't matter, iI'm happy with the guy we got. I was never big on wanting Meyer anyway. One losing season in Jacksonville like.he will have next year , he will be pulling his hair out and re occurring ulcers lol

[Panamamike]

Yes in a single season (2 for Eli) not consistently over 20 years.
The occasional Dilfer, Eli, Johnson, McMahon, or Flaco get a win but look at the defenses that actual won those SB.

Big Ben had a quarterback rating of 22.6 in his first super bowl victory.

[dmac_bolt]

Big Ben had a quarterback rating of 22.6 in his first super bowl victory.

Refs gave him that game as i recall.

[dmac_bolt]

Your “elite” season is only concerned with stats.
Why did TB12 blowup in 2007? Joshie boy or the fact that Randy Moss join the squad and produced almost 1500 yards and 23 TDs.
Give it a rest with stats. They are just one small aspect of playing football.
How many SB did NE win before or after TB12? 0 is the answer.
In Brady’s 18 years of being the starting QB for the patsies he accumulated 6 SB wins, 9 SB appearances, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 3 1st Team AP, 2 NFL O MVP, 1 NFL CBPOY, and on both NFL All-Decade teams of the 2000’s and 2010’s.
You’re trying to down play him as not elite/GOAT is comical and makes you look like a child throwing a tantrum.

I love Phil but Rivers is not a top 15-20 NFL All-Time QB. These players transcend their team, era, and produce big game wins. PR never did this consistently.

Agree. I’ve never been a TB fanboy but the TB-Not-Elite arguments are pretty dumb. 6SBs, all the accolades you listed. There has never been a BAD QB that did that. All the examples of poor QBs on SB teams are almost all 1 and done. ok, Eli 2.

TB’s GOAT credentials are solely not based on the stats, though that is obviously way more than enough. you have to watch the damn games. He came up biggest in the biggest moments of the biggest games more times than any QB in history. 4 SB MVPs are not awarded to a bad QB on a great team. At the very moment that Phil, god bless him, Rivers would chuck a vomitous duck up and barf up a big game, TB would drop a precision dime perfectly for victory. Over and over again, when it mattered. GOAT, no QB has ever won like that dude.

[Guest]

You said he was under hyped. I said no way in hell. He is so over hyped, to the point that he would have to be the best ever to live up to it.

Your posts have been all over as well. If mine have been all over it has been following yours and mocking absurdity with absurdity.

My point in mocking your TL knob slobbing has just been to point out lets let him play a down first before we crown him as the greatest.

Once again, the prevailing level of hype surrounding Lawrence has been that he is the best QB prospect to enter the league since Andrew Luck. That would ordinarily be high praise except that Lawrence is a better prospect than Luck. The prevailing view makes him undervalued as a prospect by most people. It is entirely possible for player to be hyped and yet still undervalued at the same time.

Also, your statement that Lawrence would have to be the best player ever to live up to his hype is ridiculous. By virtue of the prevailing opinion, he would merely have to be better than Andrew Luck, which barring a career ending/altering injury is very, very likely.

Heck, there were actually a significant number of people on this planet around this time last year suggesting that freaking Joe Burrow was going to be a better NFL QB than Lawrence. In the absence of an absolutely loaded team with a great OC where Burrow's greatest concern was to decide which wide open receiver to target with his less than stellar arm, Joe Burrow has done exactly didley squat ever and yet that bozo was viewed as being better in the NFL than Lawrence--the same Joe Burrow that finished 24th in passer rating in 2020 (up from 28th due to some late fallers, including Tagovailoa, allowing an injured Burrow to back into a better rank while not playing).

In light of the above opinions expressed by many about Lawrence, he is undervalued and underhyped.