OT My Thoughts on Trevor Lawrence

[FoutsFan]

Once again, the prevailing level of hype surrounding Lawrence has been that he is the best QB prospect to enter the league since Andrew Luck. That would ordinarily be high praise except that Lawrence is a better prospect than Luck. The prevailing view makes him undervalued as a prospect by most people. It is entirely possible for player to be hyped and yet still undervalued at the same time.

Also, your statement that Lawrence would have to be the best player ever to live up to his hype is ridiculous. By virtue of the prevailing opinion, he would merely have to be better than Andrew Luck, which barring a career ending/altering injury is very, very likely.

Heck, there were actually a significant number of people on this planet around this time last year suggesting that freaking Joe Burrow was going to be a better NFL QB than Lawrence. In the absence of an absolutely loaded team with a great OC where Burrow's greatest concern was to decide which wide open receiver to target with his less than stellar arm, Joe Burrow has done exactly didley squat ever and yet that bozo was viewed as being better in the NFL than Lawrence--the same Joe Burrow that finished 24th in passer rating in 2020 (up from 28th due to some late fallers, including Tagovailoa, allowing an injured Burrow to back into a better rank while not playing).

In light of the above opinions expressed by many about Lawrence, he is undervalued and underhyped.

My point still stands. Ill wait to see him play a down before I entrain the idea that he is even better than Jamarcus Russel, let alone Andrew Luck.

[Panamamike]

Agree. I’ve never been a TB fanboy but the TB-Not-Elite arguments are pretty dumb. 6SBs, all the accolades you listed. There has never been a BAD QB that did that. All the examples of poor QBs on SB teams are almost all 1 and done. ok, Eli 2.

TB’s GOAT credentials are solely not based on the stats, though that is obviously way more than enough. you have to watch the damn games. He came up biggest in the biggest moments of the biggest games more times than any QB in history. 4 SB MVPs are not awarded to a bad QB on a great team. At the very moment that Phil, god bless him, Rivers would chuck a vomitous duck up and barf up a big game, TB would drop a precision dime perfectly for victory. Over and over again, when it mattered. GOAT, no QB has ever won like that dude.

meh. SB MVPs way too often do get undeservedly awarded to quarterbacks though. I mean the super bowl over the Rams he had 127 yards passing or something for the whole game. Wow he set up a field goal to win the game big deal.

The same as one of Peyton's super bowl MVPs, Eli etc. That might be about the most worthless award in all of sports.

[floydefisher]

I'm bumping this, because it's time for me to eat some crow.

If you look at his stats this year, he's got like 95 QB rating (and his QBR is vastly improved over last year), which isn't all that bad.

I'm looking more like a doofus for saying what I did two years ago, and it's time I admitted it.

[Air Coryell]

I'm bumping this, because it's time for me to eat some crow.

If you look at his stats this year, he's got like 95 QB rating (and his QBR is vastly improved over last year), which isn't all that bad.

I'm looking more like a doofus for saying what I did two years ago, and it's time I admitted it.

He has a good HC with a ton of O experience. coaching matters.

[Maniaque 6]

Stats define the quality of a player's performance. It is that simple.

I could pick 100 other NE players that also were on multiple Super Bowl winning teams in New England and being on those teams would not say anything about how good or bad those players were either.

Super Bowl wins are a team accomplishment and are not necessarily at all relevant to the quality of a player's performance. Super Bowl history is littered with non-elite QBs being on 1, 2 and even 4 (Bradshaw) SB winning teams.

Furthermore, and to be clear, I have never suggested that Brady's overall performance has not been elite. Brady's overall career has been elite because his stats say that his career has been elite. It has nothing to do with being on Super Bowl winning teams. What I stated was that Brady did not have a single elite season until 2007, which is simply a statistical fact unless one considers not being in the top 5 in passer rating ever in 7 years to constitute elite QB play. The stats demonstrate that Brady, while consistently good, was never great during those seasons. It is impressive, though, that you would refer to me as a child in a post in which you demonstrate a considerable lack of reading comprehension.

Rivers is clearly a Hall of Fame caliber QB. His combination of longevity based stats and quality of performance of stats demonstrates that. He finished his career ranked in the top 5 in TDs and passing yards and is currently ranked #12 all time in passer rating. The only difficulty in assigning an all time rank to Rivers is with regard to comparing QBs across eras. Rivers did have numerous top 5 seasons in passer rating and led the league in numerous statistical categories over the course of his career, which suggests that he would be fairly highly ranked on any all time great QB list.

[dmac_bolt]

The urban affair certainly set him back. He seems to be steadying, which is a key characteristic of all good QBs. He always had physical tools, i would expect he improves further in 2023. He’s no Herbie though

[richpjr]

I think he has way too much talent to flame out. The only question I had was how would he handle adversity since he never had to at all in high school and college and it clearly was not something he was used to. Now with a legit coach I expect him to continue to improve. I'm not sure he ever lives up to the unrealistic expectations but he will have a very good career.

[floydefisher]

He has a good HC with a ton of O experience. coaching matters.

The QB in question also needs to be driven to improve and be the best he can be too. Last year just might have been the spark he needed to become that driven.

Right now, he's single handedly leading them to the playoffs. It's a good sign IMHO.

[Lone Bolt]

I disagree that it only has to be a single season or two. Bradshaw was not an elite QB and his teams won four Super Bowls. Sometimes a player finds himself in the right system, team and situation in which he can succeed. With the Patriots, who almost always played in a weak division during Brady's successful seasons (talk about the right situation), the Patriots never made it to, much less won a Super Bowl without the benefit of a first round bye.

Brady himself never had a single elite season at QB before 2007. For 7 seasons, he was good, but nothing great, but his reputation exceeded his actual quality of play, a reputation that was built by the mere fact of Brady being on three Super Bowl winning teams and not Brady's actual performance.

Last year's result only added to this reputation without there really being a good understanding on the part of many regarding the Bucs. The Bucs were coming off of a 7-9 season with a +9 point differential and were 7-9 despite having a QB that threw 30 INTs. Anyone can tell that with even average QB play in terms of managing turnovers, the 2019 Bucs team would have been a playoff level team. In 2020, that team added Gronkowski, Brown, Wirfs, Singletary, et cetera. Also, some of their young defensive players continued their development. All of that would make that already playoff level team better, right? And Brady was added to that. He would not have to do too much to be an upgrade over turnover machine Winston.

In fact, in the NFCCG, Brady was very arguably the single worst player on the field for Tampa Bay, but the team won anyway, in spite of Brady's turnovers. The team was red hot in the playoffs and they caught a Chiefs team that had lost both starting OTs in the Super Bowl. To suggest that any good QB could not have won with that group of players is absurd. Whatever the 2020 Bucs may have been, they were not an example of a QB putting a team on his back and leading them to victory. I would say it was more the other way around.

I would just like to say that post 62 and 63 of this thread show no avatar...but list the location and occupation of poster as ISU pipefitter from Mclean Illinois....I can attest there are only 8 ISU pipefitters, and I am the only one from McLean....and none of them are on this forum, lol....very weird glitch to have my info on somebody else's post....but to be clear, that is not me, or my thoughts.

[richpjr]

I would just like to say that post 62 and 63 of this thread show no avatar...but list the location and occupation of poster as ISU pipefitter from Mclean Illinois....I can attest there are only 8 ISU pipefitters, and I am the only one from McLean....and none of them are on this forum, lol....very weird glitch to have my info on somebody else's post....but to be clear, that is not me, or my thoughts.

I think it must be echoing your info as it is showing the location of Nashville to me with no occupation, which is what I have.

[Bolt-O]

I think Fleet might have banned someone.

[richpjr]

I think Fleet might have banned someone.

It was Chaincrusher, IIRC.