Team Without A Power RB got to SB? - A RB Discussion

[Panamamike]

I think your use of the words "in part" does not negate your overemphasis on the team's consideration of Palmer as a blocker when they drafted him. Again, it was not the substantial consideration that you made it out to be and even reinforced by referring me to a video that was not supportive of your position. They were not drafting him because he was a good blocker. Had Jaylen Waddle been on the board, they would have taken him even though he is certainly a lesser blocker than Palmer and that is because blocking was not that significant of a consideration in their selection process at that point, which has been my point all along.

I do not disagree as to your take regarding McKitty being selected for his perceived blocking ability.

BTW, your take on attorneys in the courtroom is misguided. We cannot suborn perjury and as officers of the court, we are supposed to be truthful in court.

I never made it out to be.
You asked for evidence that u claimed did not exist Mr lawyer and I gave you evidence. Do I need to quote your words when you said that it didn't exist?
Jalen waddle? What the f*** are you talking about that's a completely different cluster of player.
Please show the words where I emphasized anything but where it was CLEARLY prefaced by "in part". I will also draw evidence from the ongoing discussions to which that conversation links back to.

Again since you believe in group think so much in the draft shall we post everything in an individual thread and have the board vote on what was said to what degree and what wasn't? I'm asking you to stop putting emphasis where it wasn't placed, or put your money where your mouth is and let the majority vote decide.

[Guest]

There's only so many jobs in a roster and the competition is fierce. have u looked at the math of his hits in his tenure versus NFL average GMs? Some players move on to second contracts elsewhere but the fact that matter is his players have stayed in the league with us and elsewhere when compared to the industry average. Again I will gladly put my money where my mouth is. Will you?

SMH...players taken in round 3 by Telesco after Keenan Allen include Chris Watt (taken #91 overall, out of NFL after 3 seasons), Craig Mager (taken #83 overall, out of NFL after 4 seasons), Max Tuerk (#66 overall, out of NFL after two seasons, played 1 game, died 3 years after last being in the NFL), Dan Feeney (taken #71 overall, 2017-present in the NFL, weak starter, not re-signed by us, got a one year low money deal with the Jets as a backup OG), Justin Jones (taken #84 overall, decent starter), Trey Pipkins (taken #91 overall, ineffective player so far), Josh Palmer and Tre McKitty (taken #77 and #97 overall, both players considered by most to be reaches, McKitty considered to be one of the worst value selections in the entire draft by multiple pundits).

Including Allen, I count 9 third round selections. 5 picks with clearly below average value. 2 picks are projected to be below average in value. 1 pick with average value. 1 pick with great value.

That is not a great hit rate for the round I am discussing.

[Guest]

None of those consensus take into effect the systems in which the teams run. A very good skill set player can be drafted by a team which he doesn't fit their system and he will not perform well, but would perform better on another team which runs a system that better fits their skill set. It's not a one size fits all. The draftniks consensus also do not take into account medical evals which we have no access to nor individual interviews.


Let's get back to what I asked. Do you want to put your money where your mouth is as asked previously? You value group think so much let's have the group decide who's right who's wrong as to what was actually said.

System fit issues and medical issues will eliminate a comparatively small group of players from consideration. You are discussing minor exceptions, not general rules. Good coaches coach according to what their team's players can do. The system is bad if only a few good draft candidates can play in it effectively.

Your group think apples and oranges group think discussion does not interest me. The draft setting and discussions are completely different arenas. I already know I am right about what I have discussed. Others being right or wrong about their views does not change that.

[Bolt Dude]

SMH...players taken in round 3 by Telesco after Keenan Allen include Chris Watt (taken #91 overall, out of NFL after 3 seasons), Craig Mager (taken #83 overall, out of NFL after 4 seasons), Max Tuerk (#66 overall, out of NFL after two seasons, played 1 game, died 3 years after last being in the NFL), Dan Feeney (taken #71 overall, 2017-present in the NFL, weak starter, not re-signed by us, got a one year low money deal with the Jets as a backup OG), Justin Jones (taken #84 overall, decent starter), Trey Pipkins (taken #91 overall, ineffective player so far), Josh Palmer and Tre McKitty (taken #77 and #97 overall, both players considered by most to be reaches, McKitty considered to be one of the worst value selections in the entire draft by multiple pundits).

Including Allen, I count 9 third round selections. 5 picks with clearly below average value. 2 picks are projected to be below average in value. 1 pick with average value. 1 pick with great value.

That is not a great hit rate for the round I am discussing.

In your opinion, what’s an acceptable hit rate for 3rd rounders?

[equivocation]

System fit issues and medical issues will eliminate a comparatively small group of players from consideration.

Lacks foundation.

[like54ninjas]

System fit issues and medical issues will eliminate a comparatively small group of players from consideration. You are discussing minor exceptions, not general rules. Good coaches coach according to what their team's players can do. The system is bad if only a few good draft candidates can play in it effectively.

Your group think apples and oranges group think discussion does not interest me. The draft setting and discussions are completely different arenas. I already know I am right about what I have discussed. Others being right or wrong about their views does not change that.

So do we all.

[like54ninjas]

In your opinion, what’s an acceptable hit rate for 3rd rounders?

Excellent question.
I would guess 20% is probably about average?
35% is the top 10% of GMs?

[Guest]

In your opinion, what’s an acceptable hit rate for 3rd rounders?

That is a good question. I do not have the numbers for all teams.

So my best answer is that while I may not expect three Pro Bowlers like A.J. produced, I do expect a greater haul in terms of useful players than what Telesco has produced.

Mager, Watt and Tuerk were useless. Pipkins is one year from joining them. Feeney was a marginal player on bad OL teams. That is 5 of the 7 players that were taken in round 3 going into this season. I expect another starter to be produced and for the other players taken to be better quality reserves. 1-2 busts is okay, not 4-5. Third round picks should at least be quality reserves that the team is interested in keeping on second contracts if they are not starters.

[Guest]

Excellent question.
I would guess 20% is probably about average?
35% is the top 10% of GMs?

One issue is how you define a hit. If a hit is a solid player that we want to keep on a second contract (good reserve or solid starter), then I expect a much higher hit rate.

Two solid or better starters in 7 picks may not be that far off, but the useless haul that was Mager, Watt, Tuerk and very arguably Pipkins and Feeney, players we had no interest in keeping or will have no interest in keeping with extensions or second contracts, is below the bar. If at least three of those players were good reserves, then that plus the two starters and what would then be two busts would be reasonably acceptable for the third round.

[Guest]

Lacks foundation.

True, but the point is not controversial.

[Bolt Dude]

That is a good question. I do not have the numbers for all teams.

So my best answer is that while I may not expect three Pro Bowlers like A.J. produced, I do expect a greater haul in terms of useful players than what Telesco has produced.

Mager, Watt and Tuerk were useless. Pipkins is one year from joining them. Feeney was a marginal player on bad OL teams. That is 5 of the 7 players that were taken in round 3 going into this season. I expect another starter to be produced and for the other players taken to be better quality reserves. 1-2 busts is okay, not 4-5. Third round picks should at least be quality reserves that the team is interested in keeping on second contracts if they are not starters.

We've already had this discussion, so I'll just post the same thing as before.

The average hit rate (solid starter) of all position groups in the 3rd round is 27.75%.

Source:
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/...draft-by-round

You obviously can't count Palmer or McKitty as misses because they haven't played yet.

Therefore, TT has hit on 2/7 (Justin Jones and Keenan Allen).

That's 28.5%.

PS - Since 2013, only 25 of the 302 3rd round selections have gone on to become Pro Bowlers (that includes ST guys).
Therefore landing a Pro Bowl caliber player in the 3rd is 8%.
TT is 1/7. That's 14%.

[21&500]

Over-ruled!