AFC West OL

[KNSD]

I didn't see Watt play any better than Troutman at RG last year either. Both were so bad neither could win the job! Again, I hope Watt is a stud, but I personally have not seen any in game evidence to suggest he will be.

[RTPbolt]

Im giving Watt a pass for last year being a rookie thrust into an unfamiliar position of minimal practice time. Hope he knows the playbook and is ready to compete day one.

[Steve]

How would I know? Not everybody gets better. Some do. Some don't.

As far as the theme of your message goes - with Rivers getting older and the team threatening to ditch us, I'm no longer interested in the future. Win now.

Thanks for the information about how Watt played last year. That's what I rely on you for. You see stuff like that that I can't see.

Some do and some don't get better, but the key thing to remember is that MOST do get better. The more you play, the better you get (generally). It is not totally random.

The question is actually how much better should we expect. Watt's issue isn't his technique, it is not being able to coordinate the OL on the field. C is the toughest OL spot to play in terms of making the line calls. For the 1st time in his career, he had to identify fronts, make calls to adjust every players on the OL assignments and then make his own. It's actually fairly tough. Add to that he was still adjusting to his transition to the NFL, I think he did OK. He has a long way to go, but he has the tools.

Adding Barksdale really helps our whole OL. The thing that was scary before Barksdale was signed is that if Hairston and Fluker started, we wouldn't have had a swing OT. Now, we have 3 OK players, and 3 spots to fill (2 starters and swing OT), so the math works out. Troutman may still win the starting job, but the important thing is he is really going to have to win it. Before, he was likely as not going to get it by default, and that is scary. Now, if he is the guy who gets to play, it will have to be over the competition between the OT crowd and Sirles.

[Lightningwill_420]

Some do and some don't get better, but the key thing to remember is that MOST do get better. The more you play, the better you get (generally). It is not totally random.

The question is actually how much better should we expect. Watt's issue isn't his technique, it is not being able to coordinate the OL on the field. C is the toughest OL spot to play in terms of making the line calls. For the 1st time in his career, he had to identify fronts, make calls to adjust every players on the OL assignments and then make his own. It's actually fairly tough. Add to that he was still adjusting to his transition to the NFL, I think he did OK. He has a long way to go, but he has the tools.

Adding Barksdale really helps our whole OL. The thing that was scary before Barksdale was signed is that if Hairston and Fluker started, we wouldn't have had a swing OT. Now, we have 3 OK players, and 3 spots to fill (2 starters and swing OT), so the math works out. Troutman may still win the starting job, but the important thing is he is really going to have to win it. Before, he was likely as not going to get it by default, and that is scary. Now, if he is the guy who gets to play, it will have to be over the competition between the OT crowd and Sirles.

Your message makes sense. Logic says more practice and more experience would make a player better. But I just haven't noticed it happens more often than not.

Looking at our O'line last season:

1. King Dunlap got better.
2. Chad Rinehart didn't get better.
3. Porkchops Troutman didn't get better.
4. DJ Fluker didn't get better.
5. Rich Ohrnberger didn't get better.
6. Willie Smith didn't get better (actually I'm just assuming here. I hadn't seen him play until last year - he wasn't good enough.)

[Mister Hoarse]

I imagine having Hardwick around last year was invaluable to Watt. I would like to see us bring him back as an instructor during camp, if he's available. I know he is trying to focus on a media career tho.

[Steve]

I heard somewhere that Watt and Hardwick have been spending a lot of time prior to OTA's. I don't know if that will continue, but since he wasn't allowed to study with the coaches prior to OTA's, it is at least a good sign that Watt was doing what he could.

[Steve]

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seah...ntial-up-front

2 interesting points from Tom Cable (Seattle assistant HC/OL coach)

1). C is about multitasking. Relevant to us, since it explains a lot about Watt's performance last year.
2). An interesting take on 3rd year players, which applies to 2 of our OL. Troutman may not officially be a 3rd year guy (technically his 4th) but he missed his rookie year due to the torn pec. And we know that Fluker was heavy last year, which explains not only some of the quickness, but also the lack of technique (overweight OL tend to be waist benders).

[Steve]

PFF grades from 2014:

2 things stand out. If you buy all this numerical nonsense, we made a huge improvement on paper. We got Denver to go from a total of 12.6 and took away +12 from their score card. it actually probably helps much more, since they really haven't added a vet to just step in and replace him, so the guy who does start is probably going to be on the negative grades somewhere. One other thing to note, Franklin had 4 games with negative grades last year, his 2 of his lowest 3 scores were against us, so you could argue vs the rest of the league, he is actually better player then the +12 grade suggests.

So adding Franklin makes our -60 grade something like a -30 grade, possibly in the -20's. Franklin is a +12 (or higher) grade, and he replaces Reinhardt (-22.7), giving a difference of difference of 34.7, which is you buy PFF is a pretty big increase for a team that was 9-7 and on the verge of making the playoffs.

Add in that Rameriez (+2) is gone, so Denver is going to be in the negative territory (or likely much worse), since any replacement is likely to have a negative grade, and you force backups to play that much, that is when they amass the huge negative totals. Vasquez is probably going to play better at RG, but then you have to figure that Chris Clark (-6.7) is probably going to have to play a lot.

KC is going to be a lot worse due to losing Hudson (+13 and he is the only positive grade they had).


The other thing I think you have to add some for is the RB. Gordon hits the hole so fast, that it should make life somewhat easier on the OL. PFF grades tend to focus too much on outcomes, so as long as our RB does well, the grades should go up dramatically, even if the blocking isn't all that great. PFF doesn't grade how well guys block, just if they think the player had a positive outcome, even though they claim they don't try to understand scheme or coaching points. So, presumably as long as our OL start to release downfield and get to the 2nd level, our OL grade should rise dramatically.

Just looking to upgrade the scores.

Can't project Den, since they will have 2 starters without experience. But they lost +14 points at OG, and will probably replace them with players with significant negative grades.
KC lost their only positive grade so they will likely be a lot lower, and were already the 3rd worst OL in the division
We went from -22.7 to +12 at LG and Ohrnberger to Watt jumps from -11 to -2.5. Troutman was -25.1 jumps to -5.9 with Barskdale Net increase of about 62, getting us from -61 to +2 (come rounding in there).
Raiders only lost Wisniewski, so that was a -2.5 to whatever his replacement has.

So, the raider and Chargers are about the same, KC is probably at the bottom and it will depend a lot on who Den gets to replace the OG.

[TTK]

Barksdale was a -5.9 last year for the Rams at RT.

[Formula 21]

I wonder how many RTs graded in the green? If 75% are in the red, teams should probably re evaluate what kind o player to put there. Ie no more big fatties.

[KNSD]

They're all playing LT

[Panamamike]

I wonder how many RTs graded in the green? If 75% are in the red, teams should probably re evaluate what kind o player to put there. Ie no more big fatties.

Is there a bunch of quick footed LT types lying around looking for work that teams are unaware of?