Lombardi Interviewed with Texans for HC

[Boltjolt]

Prevent defense means it prevents a victory

[Steve]

I think where Justin is gonna really improve is throwing with anticipation and to a spot to open up his receivers. what PR lacked in physical abilities he made up for with great anticipatory throws that opened up his WRs.

That is where you see young QB improve the most, is what you are talking about above. Watching him last year to this year, Herbert improved greatly in this area already, and it should only get better since we changed O from year 1 to year 2.

The other area you didn't mention is being able to throw his receivers open. Herbert's touch, timing and "anticipation" all got better with time.

The other thing most people seem to forget is that this is the kind of thing that gets a lot better for offenses the more the receivers and QB are together. We had reduced offseason work the last 2 seasons with Herbert and his receivers. All that stuff just gets better and better the more they all do it together.

[Steve]

Prevent defense means it prevents a victory

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[Boltjolt]

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Exactly what it did. Three plays they are in FG range which is all they needed to tie it up. Too much space in the middle when you have fast WRs.

[equivocation]

Just to put it here:

2020 LAC Offense DVOA 15th 1.5%
2021 LAC Offense DVOA 4th 15.9% (14.4% better)

Some people are severly overrating or overremembering the 2020 offense.

[gzubeck]

Just to put it here:

2020 LAC Offense DVOA 15th 1.5%
2021 LAC Offense DVOA 4th 15.9% (14.4% better)

Some people are severly overrating or overremembering the 2020 offense.

We fixed most of the offense so Staley's defensive plan was to rev the offensive engine harder hoping to out distance the opposition. It didn't work. LOL!

[Guest]

But here is my post to which you responded in disagreement



Notice how i specifically mentioned 'outs to the wide right perimeter'. That is the issue of this current discussion: not Herbert throwing to spots where there is no wide receiver. One would assume that in the disagreement you registered concerning my statement, you would have focused on what i had written.

When did the issue switch to plays were Herbert's throw went beyond the receivers catch radius, and traveled into the waiting arms of a defender standing outside the numbers?

I think everyone would agree that Lombardi should stop dialing up those types of plays.

You quoted my post that clearly set forth what happened on the pick 6s and suggested that I was somehow wrong about what that post said. I was exactly right in what I said, so you tried to ignore what I clearly and specifically said and turn it into something else as you are here. If your post was about a different point I made in another post, try quoting that post instead of the post that specifically and correctly described the circumstances of the pick 6s.

The point is that the throws were to the wide area of the field and resulted in pick 6s, which is the increased risk of such wide throws. If the ball goes there, that is the risk the team takes. And I take it for granted that there is an increased risk for an INT when receiver and QB are not on the same page or there is poor execution. But that happens and when it does on a wide throw, there is the increased risk for a pick 6. It is no coincidence that all 3 pick 6s happened on throws into that area of the field.

You keep wanting to think that it matters that Cook stopped his route (contrary to what Herbert expected) or that Ekeler was breaking to the inside and the throw was a little hot and/or Ekeler did not make a good catch as if the increased risk of a pick 6 does not matter because there was not perfect execution. But that is the very reason why it matters the most--there will not always be perfect execution. The throws went outside of the numbers, which creates the risk, which is exactly my point.

(As a complete aside, your position reminds me of the famous Ford Pinto litigation. Yes, drivers made mistakes, which resulted in collisions. But because the Pinto's fuel tank design was dangerous, explosive fuel tank fires happened with some of these collisions. Everyone knows that INTs usually happen because one or more players did not execute properly. That is not the point as nobody disagrees with that. The point is that I do not care for explosive fuel tank fires (pick 6s) with our INTs.)

If we want to force defenses to defend horizontally, do we need to take that risk as often as we do for what are usually very modest gains? Or would it be better to make defenses defend both horizontally and vertically by using the RBs in the flat after the WRs have cleared out the short zone and the CBs and LBs have had time to get depth in their pass defense assignments as usually happens? IMO, the latter creates deep passing opportunities and helps to open up the underneath for RBs and other receivers (see Allen, Keenan).

At the beginning of the season, I identified certain increased risk throws that we seemed to be having Herbert make. I predicted that Herbert's INTs would increase because of the play calling of Lombardi. IMO, Herbert played much better this year than in his rookie season, emerging as one of, if not the best QB in the entire NFL. But his INTs were worse, not because of Herbert's play, but because of Lombardi's play calling IMO.

[Guest]

Being ranked #1 is partly about having the best offense, but it is also partly luck. if the D is playing well and stopping teams, giving good field position, it means fewer longer drives, so less yardage.

As far as our run game goes, I don't think it is really very good. It flashed some goodness, but it was inconsistent. Too many games where it didn't get yards when we needed them. Too many plays got blown up in the backfield.

Our Wr had their moments, but against an elite secondary is anyone other than Allen "good enough". Ekeler is the only one who really qualifies, and he is not being used as a receiver nearly as often as in the past.

The NO offense is a variant of the West Coast offense, and the points that Chain is bitching against are some of the essential elements that help make the West Coast offense go. West Coast started as mostly a horizontal stretch, with Air Coryell being more of a vertical stretch. And even if it didn't, stretching a defense horizontally and vertically just spreads it out that much more, so that when a play makes even a zone defense defend the entire field, and gives one on one chances when a player breaks a tackle or makes a defender miss in space.

I think the emphasis on the 3 pick 6's is just nitpicking. Sure, they were important, and you never want to see them, but they are plays that just broke down at critical times and it cost us. There was nothing really that wrong with the calls. IN each case, Herbert made the read and had the pass against a single defender. But either the receiver or Herbert (actually looks like both) made a mistake and it cost us. That is just poor execution. No matter how good an O and how good Herbert gets can we totally eliminate that.

I still say, going forward, you will see fewer and fewer plays like that, because Herbert is just going to continue to get better. He doesn't have too much room to improve, so it will be by tiny increments, but year by year he will continue to get better and more refined.

I do not have a quibble with the Saints offensive scheme and have always understood the 49ers style west coast offense versus the Air Coryell offense. (What else could happen with my father being a die hard 49ers fan and me being a die hard Chargers fan?) What I do have an issue with is Lombardi's play calling within that scheme.

And the focus on all the pick 6s being on throws that went wide is simply to highlight that that is an increased risk with those kinds of throws. Not a coincidence that all three happened on throws outside of the numbers. INTs happen with poor execution, but not all INTs are pick 6s. Pick 6s can happen in other areas of the field than outside the numbers, but I do seem to see them more outside the numbers, which is my point.

It was also not a coincidence that 2 INTs happened when plays called for Allen to run deeper crossing type patterns. Allen frequently gets open with sudden moves immediately off the snap. He is not going to create separation by running across the field and away from defenders who are as fast or faster than he is. Tyreek Hill is the best at those plays. When the first such INT happened against DAL, I predicted that it would happen again if we had Allen running those types of patterns. We did and it did.

Now, neither throw was perfect, of course, but the point is that the margin of error is greatly reduced when we are using the wrong personnel to execute certain plays, resulting in little or no separation.

Just lots of things I thought were off about the plays Lombardi was calling. I think Herbert being great covered for a lot of it and people have concluded that Lombardi is great and he deserves a HC interview (and I am hoping he gets hired by HOU, but I doubt it will happen), but the frustrating thing is that the offense with Herbert and our weapons could be so much better. It has the potential to be the best in the NFL, but I think Lombardi is effectively holding it back. However, because he produced better results than those produced by the Anthony Lynn clown car, he is somehow deemed to be good.

In reaching my own conclusions, I try to assess what I think we have and see if Lombardi is getting enough out of it. So far, the answer for me is "no".

[Guest]

Prevent defense means it prevents a victory

For once, we completely agree.

[jamrock]

Prevent defense means it prevents a victory

Buffalo had the #1 ranked defense in the AFC and they neutered them when it counted

[jubei]

I always thought prevent D meant it prevents them from playing D.

[jubei]

That is where you see young QB improve the most, is what you are talking about above. Watching him last year to this year, Herbert improved greatly in this area already, and it should only get better since we changed O from year 1 to year 2.

The other area you didn't mention is being able to throw his receivers open. Herbert's touch, timing and "anticipation" all got better with time.

The other thing most people seem to forget is that this is the kind of thing that gets a lot better for offenses the more the receivers and QB are together. We had reduced offseason work the last 2 seasons with Herbert and his receivers. All that stuff just gets better and better the more they all do it together.

yes I did see the anticipation throws more this year. perfect example was that last game with the late TD to Mike Williams.