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You have to beat NFL OL to the spot. They're too good to let them set up. The common trait among great front 7 players is quickness off the snap and an explosive first step.
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First, a lot of people need to take the "we are a bad run defense label" off our D. It's not that it is not true. It is completely true.Originally posted by AL9000 View Post
But we also don't rush the passer well. We don't stop people on 3rd downs. We aren't a very good coverage team. If you want to attach a label to our D attach the label "they aren't a very good defense" label. We need good all-around defensive players at the top of the draft and then look for defensive role players later in the draft.
As far as Davis goes specifically:
For comparison to other players (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...n-davis-9.html, https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...8/jordan-davis)
2021- 14 games - 32 tackles, (17 solo, 15 assists), 1 batted pass, 2 sacks, 5 TFL
2020 - 7 games - 16 tackles (7 solo, 9 assists), 1 sack, 1 TFL
2019 - 10 games - 17 tackles (7 solo, 10 assists), 2.5 sacks, 4 TFL
2018 - 10 games - 25 tackles (6 solo, 19 assists), 1.5 sacks, 1.5 TFL
Given how many snaps he gets, the production is OK in 2021. But the guy simply cannot play that hard for that many plays at 330-360 lbs, and that is never going to change. You simply cannot get that many plays out of huge players.
The other thing is look beyond the stats. On most plays, Davis is the last guy in the front 7 to move on the snap. That is fine in college when he is stronger than any 2 players on the field, but in the NFL, where every OL is like an Alabama OL, that isn't going to cut it by itself. He needs to get off the ball quicker and use his tree-trunk arms earlier in plays. Davis shows very good lateral quickness, but his quickness upfield is just not there. That is hard to think is a good thing, when there are some IDL guys who do have that ability (Travis Jones).
As I have said before, many of the big run-stuffing NT types came into the NFL much smaller and developed into being huge. Ted Washington (SF/Buff/NE), Jamal Williams, Pat Williams (Buffalo/Minn), Keith Traylor(was actually an LB for Denver, then ate his way out of the NFL and came back as a NT). All where good explosive players who developed great size and builk in the weight room (and buffet table), but retained the explosiveness. The great NT from the 1980's, the best of them were all quick off the ball, on top of being powerful (not all of them were big though).
You watch a lot of his highlight tapes, and he is making impressive, athletic plays, but he is not blocked. He is beating players with lateral quickness and the fact he is super athletic for a huge guy. But the point people keep making is we want him because he is big and powerful. OK, but if he is so damn big and powerful, shouldn't most of his big plays come from him using his size and power to make the play? Just asking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtiC...Jo%C3%A3oBasso - this is Davis best game from 2020, but the rest are all games as a senior. His best game as a pass rusher
He is a super boom or bust guy. If you hit, and he maxes his potential, then he is going to be a great player. But if he doesn't, and I would argue that almost every player doesn't reach their full potential, he is just a guy.Comment
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Davis is a good prospect. I wouldn't call him great. He's at his best jumping gaps. When he gets locked up with the OL he tends to just push rather than continue to use his hands to establish leverage and get in position to shed.
That whole Georgia defense is nuts though. Hard to focus on just one guy but Wyatt and Dean are the ones who keep making plays.Comment
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Game wrecker edge (Karlaftis or Ojabo) or right OT.Comment
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To me, Wyatt and Dean are guys that would be hard to pass on. Wyatt especially. Everyone keeps talking about him like he is this guy who can only play 3 tech and is some little quick guy who penetrates but doesn't stand in vs the run. That is all because he plays next to Davis. Wyatt is a pretty well-rounded player, and pretty physical. The other thing I like is for a big guy who plays a lot of snaps, he plays HARD. He chases plays, tries to run them down. His hand use could be better, but it is still pretty good (very good?) compared to most college DL.Originally posted by equivocation View Post
Dean is more complicated. He has the potential to be one of the better ILB in the NFL. There are 2 problems. One is ILB is a very, very tough position to be an impact player, so is it worth it at 17? Guys taken in the 1st or top of the 2nd round are sometimes better than the guys taken a bit later, but not by that much. And if the choice is for a DB or DL who has the chance to make the impact plays .... Second, Dean is used as a Blitzer, and in blitz situations, he is a big projection in our D. It is sometimes hard to tell if he has good instincts, or if the DC was just got the perfect call, and PUT him in the right spot. Generally, I think he has good instincts, but it is just hard to tell. But I think he is fairly low-risk, because he is a good coverage guy, something we need, and it increases his value as an ILB a lot. He is a better man than zone guy, but he plays well in both. He is also a very disciplined guy, plays his assignment, doesn't freelance that I can see. He is a better fit for a D that would turn him lose more as a blitzer.
Travon Walker is another guy worth considering high. His production could be better, but the UGA D blitzes a lot, so he is not the featured guy who gets as many 1 on 1 pass reps. Plus, they move him around a LOT. He spent most of his college career inside, they asked him to lose weight to play edge, and still played inside a lot this year. Another high-energy guy. Probably not a good choice at #17, but if we trade down in the 1st or early in the 2nd. I love the idea of him as an early down edge who mixes up the edge and inside rush player in our D.Comment
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One thing I have noticed about OT is that late in the first to early in the second, the OT shelf becomes pretty bare. A lot of those top 10 teams that are going with the shiny new toy of the month, switch to O line and especially OT. Not saying take OT as the Edge and DT cupboard suffers the same fate in mocks. What do you take???
I surely hope that FA helps to narrow our early focus.Comment
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I don't really label our D as "a bad run defense", but more of a "we don't have the proper pieces in place for this scheme to work" label. Staley's defense worked beautifully with the Rams because he was working with a stud DT in Donald and a shut down corner in Ramsey. Those are probably the 2 most important positions for this scheme to truly work to its full potential. As far as the Jordan Davis arguments, I think all are valid to an extent, but we should keep in mind that no player (or a very select few) are going to come into the NFL and immediately dominate without the NFL conditioning and player development the NFL would provide to polish that player.Originally posted by Steve View Post
First, a lot of people need to take the "we are a bad run defense label" off our D. It's not that it is not true. It is completely true.
But we also don't rush the passer well. We don't stop people on 3rd downs. We aren't a very good coverage team. If you want to attach a label to our D attach the label "they aren't a very good defense" label. We need good all-around defensive players at the top of the draft and then look for defensive role players later in the draft.
As far as Davis goes specifically:
For comparison to other players (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...n-davis-9.html, https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...8/jordan-davis)
2021- 14 games - 32 tackles, (17 solo, 15 assists), 1 batted pass, 2 sacks, 5 TFL
2020 - 7 games - 16 tackles (7 solo, 9 assists), 1 sack, 1 TFL
2019 - 10 games - 17 tackles (7 solo, 10 assists), 2.5 sacks, 4 TFL
2018 - 10 games - 25 tackles (6 solo, 19 assists), 1.5 sacks, 1.5 TFL
Given how many snaps he gets, the production is OK in 2021. But the guy simply cannot play that hard for that many plays at 330-360 lbs, and that is never going to change. You simply cannot get that many plays out of huge players.
The other thing is look beyond the stats. On most plays, Davis is the last guy in the front 7 to move on the snap. That is fine in college when he is stronger than any 2 players on the field, but in the NFL, where every OL is like an Alabama OL, that isn't going to cut it by itself. He needs to get off the ball quicker and use his tree-trunk arms earlier in plays. Davis shows very good lateral quickness, but his quickness upfield is just not there. That is hard to think is a good thing, when there are some IDL guys who do have that ability (Travis Jones).
As I have said before, many of the big run-stuffing NT types came into the NFL much smaller and developed into being huge. Ted Washington (SF/Buff/NE), Jamal Williams, Pat Williams (Buffalo/Minn), Keith Traylor(was actually an LB for Denver, then ate his way out of the NFL and came back as a NT). All where good explosive players who developed great size and builk in the weight room (and buffet table), but retained the explosiveness. The great NT from the 1980's, the best of them were all quick off the ball, on top of being powerful (not all of them were big though).
You watch a lot of his highlight tapes, and he is making impressive, athletic plays, but he is not blocked. He is beating players with lateral quickness and the fact he is super athletic for a huge guy. But the point people keep making is we want him because he is big and powerful. OK, but if he is so damn big and powerful, shouldn't most of his big plays come from him using his size and power to make the play? Just asking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtiC...Jo%C3%A3oBasso - this is Davis best game from 2020, but the rest are all games as a senior. His best game as a pass rusher
He is a super boom or bust guy. If you hit, and he maxes his potential, then he is going to be a great player. But if he doesn't, and I would argue that almost every player doesn't reach their full potential, he is just a guy.Comment
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DL. Im fine with edge or DT. I monster DT instantly helps Bosa. Frankly tired of banging the trench drum. TT has made it look tough at times. Thank goodness Slater fell in his lap. Think the offense as it is can do very well....especially if the D isnt the worst in the league on 3rd downs and can get our best player the ball more often. RT and solid RB 2 are needed. I sign or tag MW. Palmer is developing. I actually like Cook at TE for cheap. If Oboushi comes back we look pretty good on the OL.
Do we actually think TT and Staley dont like Pipkins and Norton? Have we not stayed in love with mediocrity under TT for years now? They got a smidge better as well. Im not sold however.
You want to help out DBs....get after the QB more. Stop the run etc. But pass rush is really pretty needed at this point.
I wonder how this defense looks with Tyrann roaming around freeing up Derwin to do other things? I just love the way he plays the game. Such a smart little guy. Not sure of the fit but he would make it work.
Pass rush. DT/Edge. Maybe that helps Murray. The kid has to get smarter. His football IQ looks pretty bad. And the frustration he shows on the field isnt a good look. Pretty easy to confuse.Comment
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This draft is deep at a variety of need positions. People will fall.Originally posted by La Costa Boy View PostComment
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I think the staff is high on Pipkins and he will have a shot to win the RT spot. They kept him on and worked his technique for a reason. Still think we need to carry 4 OT so someone will have to come in from somewhere.Originally posted by Fleet 1 View Post
Murray is dead wood. Trade him for cheap to a 1 gap cover 3 team where he can play to sttength. Low football IQ isn't often fixed.
IMO Derwin could play slot so adding a DS with positional flex makes sense.Comment
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Would Jordan Davis elevate Bosa/Tillery/Jones/Murray/White/Nwosu better than another player at a different position?Comment
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I voted DT. I believe the right guy will have more impact on 2022's W-L than any other position. Even if we take a very good vet in FA, there's nothing wrong with being able to control the line of scrimmage and crush the pocket more often than not.Originally posted by AL9000 View PostComment
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