University Study: Chargers Fans 11th Most Loyal

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

[*]Show me an NFL city that has a larger melting pot fan base, 'Pardon' doesn't do that.

Pardon wasn't an argument. It was a statement of incredulity.

I dunno. New York is the most obvious. I could name several others. I suppose it depends how you define 'melting pot,' but I doubt that San Diego is particularly unique no matter how you define it.

Do you really not think that the SB history of the team has anything to do with a fan base?

Not really in terms of attracting new fans. The Redskins and Raiders aren't cultivating new fans on the basis of ancient history. Hey, don't forget that the Browns had a ton of NFL championships. I suppose if a team is contending for and winning current Super Bowls, that could encourage new fans to follow the team. But the history is largely a secondary attraction for new fans vs current play and current players. Plus this team does have a pretty interesting history. Not a lot of rings, but successful exciting teams and players.

The stadium is filled most Sundays, but not filled to the brim and take a look at the amount of "black outs" we have or have to avert last minute.

The team hasn't made the playoffs for the last three seasons. How many blackouts or blackout threats were there when the team was rolling?

The Mexico thing somewhat of a point since there isn't a heritage of American football in Mexico, but what about teams that border Canada? Do they suffer from the same issue? Maybe more interest in football up north, but it's definitely secondary to hockey. And Mexican fans and hispanic fans do support the Chargers. Even so you have major swaths of prime real estate to the north, east and even Vegas that could be tapped into. Perhaps those markets can't be penetrated or perhaps our ownership group isnt visionary enough to go for it. But I'll tell you one thing, a compelling team with compelling players can accomplish that. At the end of the day, attracting fans really does have something to do with success. I doubt you could say the Patriots had a national following until they started winning a lot.

[TABF]

Pardon wasn't an argument. It was a statement of incredulity.

I dunno. New York is the most obvious. I could name several others. I suppose it depends how you define 'melting pot,' but I doubt that San Diego is particularly unique no matter how you define it.

Have you ever been to San Diego? We have more Navy/USMC personell within our county limits than most regions of the Country... They stay here becasue its damn nice here. Unique? Your damn right SD is unique. What generation San Diegan are you? My parents were not from SD, they stayed here based on the Military. My story is very similar to everyone I grew up with. SD is a military town and everyone I know can chase thier San Diego roots back to something tied to the US Military whether that be shipyards,

New York...? People have migrated to NY for centuries and people have stayed. All my family in NY can trace their roots to some part of that region back many many generations.

[TABF]

Yes, those other markets have challenges of their own, but I feel SD has to overcome more and has to overcome bigger. I cannot for the life of me see how GB is anywhere close to SD in this regard.

1st. I would agree that SD is the NFL's largest "melting pot". SD is also the NFL's largest "military" city and that contributes to the melting pot in a huge way. All 5 branches of the Armed Forces are represented in SD in a big way and this not only means SD locals get shipped out, but the influx from all over the country is immense. Combine this with the close proximity to Mexico (who's residents are dying to get into this country for a hand out) and TDF's "melting pot" point is accurate. This influx of people is a market that the Chargers have to find a way to tap into. Problem is that most of this influx either doesn't care about American Football or shows up with a preconcieved loyalty to another team.

Your comments on Pheonix could also apply to LA, IMO. I don't think LA hates SD so to speak, but they don't view the city in a positive light either. I think LA looks at SD as its annoying little step-sibling and they carry an aire of superiority among themselves when it comes to how they view SD. If LA were such a viable market, then the Chargers surely would have tapped into it by now or, at least, tried to tap into it. I think they feel that the ROI in targeting that market is too low and therefor not cost effective.

In the media there is an east coast bias. We all know that. The whole country know that. Even when we had LT lighting it up and we were contenders I felt our coverage was minimal. I'm east of the Mississippi so I say this with complete fairness. ESPN has never annointed us or any player for us as one of their poster children like they have with Brady, the Mannings, Favre and even Vick.

We have a crap stadium, no Lombardi's and a history of bad ownership. A legacy that consists of the "Air Coryell" days, 1 trip to the SB, and one of the biggest draft busts in history. How do you reel in new fans with that?

Well Said...

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Have you ever been to San Diego? We have more Navy/USMC personell within our county limits than most regions of the Country... They stay here becasue its damn nice here. Unique? Your damn right SD is unique. What generation San Diegan are you? My parents were not from SD, they stayed here based on the Military. My story is very similar to everyone I grew up with. SD is a military town and everyone I know can chase thier San Diego roots back to something tied to the US Military whether that be shipyards,

New York...? People have migrated to NY for centuries and people have stayed. All my family in NY can trace their roots to some part of that region back many many generations.

I used to live in San Diego. And I've lived all over this country and overseas too. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

If you're saying that San Diego has a lot of transplants for a variety of reasons, but primarily the military I will agree with you. Where we diverge is how unique that is. There are many major MSAs around the country that contend with that issue. New York is an obvious one because thats where the term melting pot actually began. So many people come from all over the country and the world to work in a fashion, art, financial, publishing and entertainment metropole. It's a huge city and lots of people are rooted there, but the expat and transplant communities are huge. With respect, San Diego's situation pales in comparison. It just does. With all of the major East Coast universities attracting top talent from all over, New York is an obvious landing spot for many. So you have a lot of people who are definitely not NY fans. They have to be converted over time.

Dallas has an extremely large transplant population and has grown rapidly since the 70s because of it. Atlanta is similar. So is Phoenix. Houston even. Not only do we have a ton of people from around the world and country related to the oil sector, there's a huge hispanic (and international) population. It's one of the most international cities I have lived in. And on top of it, there's a huge post-Katrina wave (150-250K people) of gulf coast residents that have relocated and remained here so you're talking about lots of Saints and Titans fans or just not Texans fans. Of those five cities, I've lived in four and also in San Diego. So while I agree that the Chargers have a large transient population and have to convert these people, so do the other cities I've mentioned. In that respect, I dont see it as particularly unique. At best you can say it's unique because of the military aspect but why is military more unique than other reasons for large populations of transplants?

[Wheels]

I kinda question the whole thing. They are looking at the "fan base" over the last 3 years. Nice as an academic exercise, but the real base are the people who root no matter what, and in that regard, I always felt our warped little community was pretty strong. I mean, how many times can you have your hopes and dreams crushed (really crushed) and still line up to be first in line at the nose punching contest, and yet here we are, year after year.

Looking at the teams in front of us, almost all of them have been better then us in recent memory, so is it really talking about the fan base, or the number of fair weather fans? Not that I have any idea how you can seperate the two in an objective sense.

This is what I was thinking. I'm sure the kids doing this study tried to factor that, but it's gotta be difficult. Cowboys being at the top of the list basically validates what you are saying. Most of their fans jumped on the bandwagon in the early 90's. Most of their fans identify with the brand. It's not a civic pride type of thing, it's a brand that they like to wear, and especially since the team dominated for a while and has won a lot of championships. I'd think you'd have to penalize a fanbase for championships when factoring loyalty, for the reasons you stated. What's more loyal, a fan who is constantly rewarded with wins and trophies, or the fans who get kicked in the nuts and say thank you sir may I have another.

[Stinky Wizzleteats+]

Historicly we have stuggled selling tickets to a lackluster product and venue in a reagon with maybe availbe options from surf to snow in the best climet next to Hawaii.

[TABF]

I used to live in San Diego. And I've lived all over this country and overseas too. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

If you're saying that San Diego has a lot of transplants for a variety of reasons, but primarily the military I will agree with you. Where we diverge is how unique that is. There are many major MSAs around the country that contend with that issue. New York is an obvious one because thats where the term melting pot actually began.

You're not sure what point I'm tyring to make yet you multi quote each of my points and stray away from the totality of my post. You refute items like you're the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals... Take a look at the totality and tell me I'm wrong. One topic may have less of an impact than the other, but as a group, they place a very unique burden on the Chargers as it applies to appealing to a fan base.

Dallas has an extremely large transplant population and has grown rapidly since the 70s because of it. Atlanta is similar. So is Phoenix. Houston even. Not only do we have a ton of people from around the world and country related to the oil sector, there's a huge hispanic (and international) population. It's one of the most international cities I have lived in. And on top of it, there's a huge post-Katrina wave (150-250K people) of gulf coast residents that have relocated and remained here so you're talking about lots of Saints and Titans fans or just not Texans fans. Of those five cities, I've lived in four and also in San Diego. So while I agree that the Chargers have a large transient population and have to convert these people, so do the other cities I've mentioned. In that respect, I dont see it as particularly unique. At best you can say it's unique because of the military aspect but why is military more unique than other reasons for large populations of transplants?

Dallas is number one and controls 90% of Texas. All south Texans, New Mexican's, and anyone born in the 70's from a place not tied to an NFL team is a Dallas Fan. Quite frankly is was very easy to be a Dallas Fan.

Our situation is unique because of the totality of all that is involved... If you don't think that the Chargers difficulties appealing to a fan base with all the things I mentioned is more difficult than most if not all NFL teams, then there is no reason for us to politley argue becasue you're being closed minded.

Lastly, do some research on the term melting pot and it's origins. I quite sure it didn't start in NY. It's a migration/culture mixing based term & people were migrating and mixing cultures long before we were a country.

[RobH]

From The Evolution of Racism: Human Differences and the Use and Abuse of Science by Pat Shipman and the origin of the term:

In the early 1900s, the United States experienced a large—and to many, alarming—rise in immigration, much of it from southeastern Europe. Absorbing this influx of people of different ethnic backgrounds into American society was sometimes tumultuous and difficult. In 1908, a playwright, Israel Zangwill, wrote of this process, coining a catchphrase and an image that were to reverberate for years to come: “America is God's crucible,” Zangwill’s character declared, “the great melting pot where all the races of Europe are melting and reforming.”2
Zangwill was a Jew, a Zionist, and an Englishman, well known as one of the first writers to portray Jewish immigrant life in popular literature. But in much of the Western world, Jews were the target of substantial and freely expressed prejudice and distrust. To hear Zangwill celebrate the new American race that was being created in the melting pot did nothing to reassure the eugenicists. They were largely white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant, drawn from the upper and middle classes, and hoped desperately to protect their culture and privilege from these immigrant outsiders. In some minds, the melting pot was not a symbol of hope but was actually synonymous with the decline of the “white” race. This was precisely the theme of a popular book, The Passing of the Great Race, first published by an American, Madison Grant, in 1916.

[TABF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

Act I

The scene is laid in the living-room of the small home of the Quixanos in the Richmond or non-Jewish borough of New York, about five o'clock of a February afternoon. At centre back is a double street-door giving on a columned veranda in the Colonial style. Nailed on the right-hand door-post gleams a Mezuzah, a tiny metal case, containing a Biblical passage. On the right of the door is a small hat-stand holding Mendel's overcoat, umbrella, etc.

As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion. But it's ironic that you chose to call me closed-minded.

[TABF]

As for the rest, you're entitled to your opinion. But it's ironic that you chose to call me closed-minded.

I made the initial point that you questioned regarding "disadvantages". You didn't like my answer(s) for some reason. I equate that to you to not being open minded to my points as I thought my response(s) to your initial question to me were both thorough and valid. During our thread swapping I made my points to support my stance (or your question to me).

The irony is that you respond to my points w/a tad bit of an elitist attitude yet you have no idea where I have travelled in my life & even suggest I visit a 3rd world country to make a comparison of Mexico? I think you would be surprised where I have hung my hat? But that is for another thread.

So yea... I stand by my statement that you were close minded on this topic and that my friend, on this topic, isn't ironic.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

I'm not closed-minded just because I don't agree with you. If I have to agree with you to be considered open-minded, then that is what it is. My "liking" of your answers has nothing to do with it. I think they are off base because of my own personal experience and observations. And just an understanding of the socio-economics and cultures of those areas.

I've lived in San Diego and I've lived in every one of the other cities I mentioned except Atlanta. I agree that SD has challenges. But I think your sense of San Diego's uniqueness in this context is grossly overstated. Again, you're entitled to your opinion.

As for your travels, if you think Mexico is a third world country, then it would suggest that you need your horizons broadened. If you've traveled widely and you still think Mexico is third world, then that too is what it is.