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How Talented Is This Team Really?

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  • How Talented Is This Team Really?

    Did anyone consider maybe this team just isn't all that talented? The only games this team has won in the last 2 years have been to teams with losing records. When they play winning teams the result is never in doubt.

    If we go position by position I think it's obvious areas we thought were good are actual weaknesses and areas thought to be good enough are really bad. The cornerback group might be the worst in the NFL. I really thought M. Davis was solid and would take a leap towards all-pro status this year but he appears to have lost a step and is now below average to average at best. JC with his injury recovery is in the very lowest tier of starting NFL corners and Asante is consistently inconsistent. I would put our cornerback group at 3-14 to 7-10 talent level.

    Inside linebacker and defensive tackles are among the worst in the NFL. Kendricks is old, slow, and already injured. Murray doesn't react well. There's not a single difference maker at DT they play with a 4 man rotation and there's no drop-off at all when the 2nd unit is out there. I'd put those 2 position groups at 3-14 talent level. They are above average at edge but really difficult to have a good defense when only 1 position group on the field is above average. Derwin is really the only consistently excellent defender we have.

    Offensively, Slater is the only real standout on the line. The rest of the line is capable of being pretty good but inconsistent. I'd consider the entire line average.

    The receivers are old and slow but as of now they're still getting maximum respect from defenses. If Herbert doesn't start hitting Mike W on some stuff down the field defenses will lose all respect for the deep passing game and if that happens it's gonna be really difficult to move the ball at all.

    Tight end, running back, and QB are slightly above average. Herbert is good in the pocket but any advantage he has there is negated by his inability and unwillingness to extend plays. A QB in the modern NFL needs to be able to get out of sticky situations and create big 3rd down plays with his legs 5 or 6 times a game. Herbert does it once a game. Those other 4 or five 3rd down plays he doesn't create when the pocket collapses and receivers are covered are the difference between winning and losing. See yesterday - Herbert had 4 chances in the 4th quarter and OT to put the game away and couldn't get it done on 3rd down. Four big 3rd downs on 4 possessions led to 3 punts and a FG.

    Player by player here's how I'd rate the talent on a 10 point scale.

    Grading scale:

    3: practice squad
    4: below avg starter
    5: NFL starter
    6: above avg starter
    7: very good starter
    8: solid pro-bowler
    9: elite player - no weaknesses - above avg in every category

    Offense:

    QB: Herbert 6
    RB: Ekeler 7
    WR: Allen 6 (I give him a 6 & not higher because he doesn't change the way defenses have to play)
    WR: Williams 7 (really should be more like a 5 but I'm giving him a 7 for now because he still changes defenses & teams are still giving him safety help down the field)
    TE: Everett 6 (trending toward a 7 if they keep utilizing him)
    LT: Slater 9 (truly one of the very elite players in the NFL)
    LG: Zion 4 (not worth the 1st round pick)
    C: Linsley 7
    RG: Salyer: 5 (what a pleasant surprise he's been)
    RT: Pipkins: 5 (pretty good in the run game but still inconsistent in pass pro)

    Avg score of offense: 5.63

    Defense:

    DT: Joseph-Day 4
    DT: Austin Johnson 4
    Edge: Mack 6 (still really really good against the run)
    Edge: Bosa 7 (below avg off tackles still have no chance against him)
    LB: Murray 4
    LB: Kendricks 5
    CB: Davis 4
    CB: JC Jackson 3 (not recovered enough to be capable of consistently covering anybody)
    CB: A. Samuel 5 (in coverage he's more like a 4 and tackles like a 3 but I give him a 5 because he does create turnovers)
    S: Derwin 8
    S: Gilman 4

    Avg score of defense: 4.90

    Average score of team 5.27

    Projected record: ~8-9








  • #2
    Spot on man. Agree with lack of talent at HC position xD.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the team is very talented. You can point to a lack of depth at certain positions but I think the vast majority of issues have been coaching. Your grades would be higher across the board if Andy Reid was our HC.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by richpjr View Post
        I think the team is very talented. You can point to a lack of depth at certain positions but I think the vast majority of issues have been coaching. Your grades would be higher across the board if Andy Reid was our HC.
        Exactly. You can’t really even assess our players given the coaching and I guarantee that if you had a legit NFL coach it would look different.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's the great thing about opinions, I think you're way off the mark. This team is very talented, really.

          Comment


          • #6
            Explain how? You guys watched the game the last 2 weeks. The defense was put in position to make plays and didn't make them. I'll give 2 examples from yesterday:

            Example #1: Asante Samuel Jr with a 10 yard cushion on Traylon Burks. Burks is NOT a burner he's a bigger run after the catch guy. TEN yard cushion and Asante gets toasted 70 yards down the field by a guy who hasn't caught that ball in the 2 years he's been playing. Asante knew what was happening but wasn't fast enough to catch up. How does coaching explain that? Asante just got beat.

            Example #2: Our #1 corner M. Davis vs Tennessee #4 or #5 receiver who's caught like 2 balls in 5 years. Again, NOT a speed guy. That should be an EASY matchup for Davis. Davis was not out of position & didn't have any mental lapse on that play. He knew what was happening as soon as the the ball was snapped. But he got beat because he just wasn't good enough.

            I hate to say it but Tennessee was making chicken salad out of chicken shit because our guys just aren't very good.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by richpjr View Post
              I think the team is very talented. You can point to a lack of depth at certain positions but I think the vast majority of issues have been coaching. Your grades would be higher across the board if Andy Reid was our HC.
              This^

              Originally posted by jamrock View Post
              Exactly. You can’t really even assess our players given the coaching and I guarantee that if you had a legit NFL coach it would look different.
              This^

              Originally posted by AFboltfan View Post
              That's the great thing about opinions, I think you're way off the mark. This team is very talented, really.
              And this^

              The roster is has a lot of talent, but it vastly underperforms due to the coaching. The Spanoses must know this too. But they are choosing to keep loosing and waste Herbert's career over making the changes that are need to get this team to perform to its talent level. I think that choice is dictated by their financial situation more than their belief in the current coaching.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kellyb72601 View Post
                Explain how? You guys watched the game the last 2 weeks. The defense was put in position to make plays and didn't make them. I'll give 2 examples from yesterday:

                Example #1: Asante Samuel Jr with a 10 yard cushion on Traylon Burks. Burks is NOT a burner he's a bigger run after the catch guy. TEN yard cushion and Asante gets toasted 70 yards down the field by a guy who hasn't caught that ball in the 2 years he's been playing. Asante knew what was happening but wasn't fast enough to catch up. How does coaching explain that? Asante just got beat.

                Example #2: Our #1 corner M. Davis vs Tennessee #4 or #5 receiver who's caught like 2 balls in 5 years. Again, NOT a speed guy. That should be an EASY matchup for Davis. Davis was not out of position & didn't have any mental lapse on that play. He knew what was happening as soon as the the ball was snapped. But he got beat because he just wasn't good enough.

                I hate to say it but Tennessee was making chicken salad out of chicken shit because our guys just aren't very good.
                Using this logic every defender in the league isn't talented because other teams score TDs against them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Velo View Post
                  This^

                  This^

                  And this^

                  The roster is has a lot of talent, but it vastly underperforms due to the coaching. The Spanoses must know this too. But they are choosing to keep loosing and waste Herbert's career over making the changes that are need to get this team to perform to its talent level. I think that choice is dictated by their financial situation more than their belief in the current coaching.
                  For Dean Spanos - owning the Chargers is all about revenue. The value of the team has increased since the move, he has more money, winning games is irrelevant. Totally irrelevant. Sure he signs players and ACTS like he wants to win. But he truly could care less if the team wins or not as long as his bank account is bigger

                  So yes, I think Staley was the wrong hire. I think all things equal, Daboll would have been a better hire. But for whatever reason, the Chargers picked a first time head coach, again and the results speak for themselves.

                  But part of the reason I wanted them to make different moves this past offseason was that I didn' tthis team was close enough to KC to warrant pushing cap. So I would have tried to more tread water this year, reset, stockpile draft picks and kind of re-load. And with Herbert, they would always have a chance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The roster is plenty of talent IMO, the staff is wasting it tho.

                    Originally posted by Bolt4Knob View Post
                    Daboll would have been a better hire.
                    100%

                    Originally posted by richpjr View Post

                    Using this logic every defender in the league isn't talented because other teams score TDs against them.


                    I think he means our players aren't focused and make mistakes a pro player should not.
                    ​​

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by boltupspain View Post
                      The roster is plenty of talent IMO, the staff is wasting it tho.

                      100%

                      I think he means our players aren't focused and make mistakes a pro player should not.
                      ​​
                      The quote was literally that "the guys just aren't very good." when describing 2 long passes given up. If giving up a long pass means you aren't very good than there are a lot of not very good players in the league. My comment was kind of tongue in cheek but the point was even good players get beat. Good coaches put players in position to make more plays and get beat less.

                      We have a coaching problem far more than a talent problem.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I miss Lombardi. Herbert was a better player in his O.
                        With Moore we have better OL run blocking, lousy pass pro and Herbert is the King of 3 & out.
                        The D hasn't been good, just good enough to give K3&O a chance to pratt fall with the W in the balance.
                        If we're going to win a game, it looks like D will have to defend a lead when and if we get one., no matter when.
                        Pitch a shut out from that point on.

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