Chargers @ Vikings Official Game Day Thread / Post Game Reaction (Wk 3)

[Xenos]

That doesn't matter. Analytics does not take into consideration any human element at all. It's purely math. That's where it fails.

Let me ask you this. Suppose you are a High School team facing 4th and 1 at your 25 yard line. Make it and you win the game.
The other team is the SF 49ers. Analytics tells you nothing about the particular situation. The Chargers in critical situations have missed more than made
3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Analytics doesn't tell anything about that or 100 other possible reasons why you shouldn't go for it.

Now in that same Chargers situation as yesterday if the score is 30-28, then I go for it. See the big difference? Analytics will tell you go for it 100% of
the time. If I were facing the 2007 Brady led Patriots I may go for it. But if was the 2023 Vikings with a QB known not to be great in clutch situations.
The situation matters because humans defy the odds all the time.

If it doesn’t matter than don’t use the word “history” and anecdotal evidence that analytics have cost important games.

[charger1_sj]

Staley backed off quite a bit in 2022. And so far in 2023. He’s not taking the same aggressiveness that he did in 2021, which is one of my biggest criticisms of him.

Backed off because it didn't work in 2021. We failed to make the PO partly because of analytics. He didn't back off yesterday did he? In case you missed it, analytics failed
on that play.

[Xenos]

Okay. But not only did analysis say go for it. The gut feel of the game and season was that the defense struggles to stop teams. 1 yard away from Win and the offense that should be able to get it. But the opponent won the down. Play call was questionable, think it's easier for opponent to blow up a telegraph run play. Play action in those situations where they have to sell out to stop a yard to create easy pitch and catch opportunities.

Yup. Analytics gives you a simple binary decision. Coaches still need to choose the right playcall and players still need to execute.

[Xenos]

At the end of the day, analytics is just an updated version of quality control. You’re still studying tendencies and doing statistical analysis. You still need to coach, have the right plays, and have said players execute.

[charger1_sj]

If it doesn’t matter than don’t use the word “history” and anecdotal evidence that analytics have cost important games.

But for us they have. Analytics doesn't care about "us". Us is a human element. Every human is different and every situation is different.
Analytics doesn't take any of that into consideration. You would need real time AI, along with Analytics in order to make any football sense of
the situation.

There is no point in discussing this further. We agree to disagree.

[charger1_sj]

Yup. Analytics gives you a simple binary decision. Coaches still need to choose the right playcall and players still need to execute.

Exactly and Analytics doesn't tell you anything about that, but it's critical to the success of the play.

[Lefty2SLO]

Okay. But not only did analysis say go for it. The gut feel of the game and season was that the defense struggles to stop teams. 1 yard away from Win and the offense that should be able to get it. But the opponent won the down. Play call was questionable, think it's easier for opponent to blow up a telegraph run play. Play action in those situations where they have to sell out to stop a yard to create easy pitch and catch opportunities.

It would seem that 'analytics' is fairly useless without proper playcalling - you might even call it detrimental . . . . . . . . . . . we rushed for a grand total of 30 yards in the entire game. Whose bright idea was it to run Kelley, when we hadn't done squat in the run game all game? And JH had been carving them up with ease?

Where is the 'confidence and belief' Staley alludes to? Was he so confident that Herbert couldn't make a 1 yard pass that he decided to run the ball? Was he so confident his defense couldn't hold up if we punted that he had to take the risk? And double down with the most conservative play call on the play sheet? Guy is full of shit - and he shows it every time he opens his mouth . . . . . . . .

[Xenos]

It would seem that 'analytics' is fairly useless without proper playcalling - you might even call it detrimental . . . . . . . . . . . we rushed for a grand total of 30 yards in the entire game. Whose bright idea was it to run Kelley, when we hadn't done squat in the run game all game? And JH had been carving them up with ease?

Where is the 'confidence and belief' Staley alludes to? Was he so confident that Herbert couldn't make a 1 yard pass that he decided to run the ball? Was he so confident his defense couldn't hold up if we punted that he had to take the risk? And double down with the most conservative play call on the play sheet? Guy is full of shit - and he shows it every time he opens his mouth . . . . . . . .

Staley doesn’t control the offensive playcalling. That’s up to Moore. I posted his reasoning in another page.

Everything in football is useless without good playcalling and execution. It’s why no one is saying that you replace players or coaches with AI or robots. But just like film study, practice, or conditioning, analytics is another important tool to use when you want to increase your chances of winning.

[Xenos]

Staley doesn’t control the offensive playcalling. That’s up to Moore. I posted his reasoning in another page.

https://www.thepowderblues.com/forum/forum/los-angeles-chargers-forum-nfl-forum-padres-forum/the-los-angeles-chargers-forum/1537147-chargers-vikings-official-game-day-thread-post-game-reaction-wk-3?p=1539408#post1539408

Everything in football is useless without good playcalling and execution. It’s why no one is saying that you replace players or coaches with AI or robots. But just like film study, practice, or conditioning, analytics is another important tool to use when you want to increase your chances of winning.

[Critty]

Analysis says that run is marginally better than pass in 4th and 1 situations. But QB sneak is a significantly better play than either run or pass. With a 20% higher conversion rate in those situations. Making the QB sneak the best play call. Yet, Kelley got the ball. Not going far enough with analytics. That the question he should be asked. Why he went away from analytics on the play call. Eagles telegraph the sneak and get it damn near Everytime. Any reason we can't add that to the play sheet l?!?

https://sports.sites.yale.edu/success-short-yardage-play-types-fourth-down

[Velo]

The Vikes didn't put Herbert on the ground the entire game. Danielle Hunter got credit for a sack on that play he managed to get his hand in and knock the ball out of Herbert's grip when Herbert was moving up in the pocket. Herbert jumped on the ball, but it was behind the LOS so it got recorded as a sack.

Justin Herbert's Career Day vs Vikings | LA Chargers

[Lefty2SLO]

Staley doesn’t control the offensive playcalling. That’s up to Moore. I posted his reasoning in another page.

Everything in football is useless without good playcalling and execution. It’s why no one is saying that you replace players or coaches with AI or robots. But just like film study, practice, or conditioning, analytics is another important tool to use when you want to increase your chances of winning.

If he didn't have input on this call he truly is an idiot. No way an OC makes this call on his own without HC concurrence, and if the HC would allow such a thing without his input then he doesn't deserve to BE a HC. This would be like me abdicating responsibility for a critical task to one of my CM's and allowing them to make the call without any input. Regardless as to how competent my team member is it's MY responsibility as the team leader to have input and control over critical tasks, and my boss expects me to do just that. It's also cowardly to hide behind an associate when things don't work out.

I agree that analytics is a useful tool, as long as it remains a tool to aid in the decision making process, and not the sole driver of the decision . . . . . . . .