Rate the Starting Unit

[Panamamike]

When I watch Starks I keep pushing the >> button, thinking that the DRV is running in slow motion...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I just sprayed coffee all over my screen. It was worth it though.

[Formula 21]

Cutting Starks and saving his money may allow us to cut Meachum too.

Teams (Jets?) may need a starting qb soon. Keep CBJ on the roster and trade him (7th rounder) after the final cuts? Sorenson can do his job. Use his money too to cut Meachum.

[thelightningwill]

My ignorant impressions:

1) Rivers, on the whole, gets a C+ from me. I think he is going to do better in the McCoy system, but he sure isn't going to run up the numbers like he did in year's past. Of course, I don't think he's going to getting bounced around as much, either. So it's a trade-off.

2) Muffews is running hard and looks quicker to me. I still cringe every time he takes a hit (fear of injury) and...sigh...another fumble. The only good thing about that fumble was the Keystone Cops side show that followed. Who was that Cardinal DB, anyway? And is his application at McDonald's up to date? I mean, really, not only does he try to scoop the ball up and run with it - which is almost NEVER a good strategy - but he laterals the ball the his own 5-yard! LOL! What followed next kept me laughing for about 5 minutes. Nice punch out by Gates to complete the play. Pure comedy.

3) I actually noticed Larry English last night...for the first time in 4 years...PS or regular season. He actually looked decent/good. Let's see if the guy can stay out of the trainer's room and/or the operating room.

4) I haven't watched the ends of either of the first two games, so I was anxious to see Brad Sorenson. He was as everyone described: Poised, eyes down the field, and he seems to have a pretty good arm. Although...am I the only one who thinks he has kind of a funky throwing motion? One complaint: He might lock on to his primary target a bit too much.

5) Freeney looks very good to me. I think he has plenty left in his tank.

6) Don't know what to think of the OL. I really don't. Other than it will be our Achilles' Heel in '13, almost certainly.

7) Like Tutu. Always have. He's WAY better than Meachump and Royal. He deserves a spot on the team...AND playing time.

8) Impressed with Brandon Taylor..against the 3rd-stringers, anyway. Take that FWIW.

P.S. Just watched that fumble/lateral/fumble/TD again. Gates has a nice hold on the DB's leg and tries to 'tackle' him by pulling it up, higher and higher. Then he releases and does the punch out thing. Still laughing.

It's just pre-season so I can't tell for sure. But the run blocking, so far, looks way better now that Norv is gone. I'm not sure the O'line will be the worst part of our team. The D line could go to crap if any of the staters get hurt, and I'm not so certain our starting nose tackle is any good. We'll see.

[Den60]

I don't feel our starters on defense are good. I don't feel they are bad either. I think that, with the exception of Weddle, all our starters are unproven. Most are young and some have a history of missing a lot of games. Same goes for the backups.
Basically, what I'm saying is I have no idea if our defense is good or horrible or somewhere in between.

Here is how I view them:

D-Line:

Luiget: All around 3-4 DE. If he stays healthy he is a pro-bowl talent.
Thomas: Decent NT who is probably better pressuring the QB than stopping the run. Will most likely split time with Geathers who has a history of motivational issues.
Reyes: Very good pass rushing 3-4 DE but not very good against the run.

Nickle DE: Freeney. A good pass rusher when healthy but at 33 you wonder how he will hold up to a full schedule. If you look at his stats over the last 4 years it is pretty much a straight-line depreciation..

OLB:

JJ: Solid against the run, nothing special against the pass. Should get subbed with by Freeney on obvious passing downs.
English: Has shown some flashes this PS but his injury history is a concern.

ILB:

Butler: A rising star in the league and potential Pro-bowl player.
Te'o: ?
Bird: Limited talent, nothing special as a player.

CB:

Cox: Supposed to be solid when healthy, which hasn't been a lot. I haven't really been all that impressed with him so far.
Wright: Has great natural talent and has played pretty well so far in PS. His injury history is a concern.
Patrick: Not very good as a NB. We will have to see what Marshall has.

S:

Weddle: All-pro player. More of a playmaker than a hitter. Has a tendency to gamble in coverage. Not great closing speed. I like him more in the box than ranging down the field.
Gilchrist: Should be our NB. We gave up 8.27 ypc against Arizona who ranked dead last last year running the ball.
Stuckey: I'd give him a shot to start. May as well see if he has a future at S.
Taylor: Missed too much time in the offseason to be considered as a potential starter this year.


Obviously we are better at OLB with Ingram. I would have liked to have drafted an OLB early to bookend Ingram but if English plays like this for a full season we are not as bad as we could be. If he gets hurt, a real possibility given his history, then we are going to have issues. Pagano has recently said he sees Freeney as an every down player. I don't. Spin moves are not effective against the run.

As far as talent goes I think we have a pretty decent core of starters, upper middle in the league, when it comes to defense. But when depth is considered we have huge dropoffs at nearly every position should a starter go down.

[Den60]

Cutting Starks and saving his money may allow us to cut Meachum too.

Teams (Jets?) may need a starting qb soon. Keep CBJ on the roster and trade him (7th rounder) after the final cuts? Sorenson can do his job. Use his money too to cut Meachum.

Meachem's dead money hit would take place next year along with the hit we take with Gaither ($7-8M between them). If we find a way to keep Meachem on the roster this season then we can cut him at the end of the season, designate him as a June 1 cut, and put the dead money into the following year. Starks' money is all in this season and he only cost us $160 to cut him, which would not count against the cap. Just don't see Starks sticking with this team as a backup you really don't want in there. Harris appears to be better in pass protection.

[thelightningwill]

Here is how I view them:

D-Line:

Luiget: All around 3-4 DE. If he stays healthy he is a pro-bowl talent.
Thomas: Decent NT who is probably better pressuring the QB than stopping the run. Will most likely split time with Geathers who has a history of motivational issues.
Reyes: Very good pass rushing 3-4 DE but not very good against the run.

Nickle DE: Freeney. A good pass rusher when healthy but at 33 you wonder how he will hold up to a full schedule. If you look at his stats over the last 4 years it is pretty much a straight-line depreciation..

OLB:

JJ: Solid against the run, nothing special against the pass. Should get subbed with by Freeney on obvious passing downs.
English: Has shown some flashes this PS but his injury history is a concern.

ILB:

Butler: A rising star in the league and potential Pro-bowl player.
Te'o: ?
Bird: Limited talent, nothing special as a player.

CB:

Cox: Supposed to be solid when healthy, which hasn't been a lot. I haven't really been all that impressed with him so far.
Williams: Has great natural talent and has played pretty well so far in PS. His injury history is a concern.
Patrick: Not very good as a NB. We will have to see what Marshall has.

S:

Weddle: All-pro player. More of a playmaker than a hitter. Has a tendency to gamble in coverage. Not great closing speed. I like him more in the box than ranging down the field.
Gilchrist: Should be our NB. We gave up 8.27 ypc against Arizona who ranked dead last last year running the ball.
Stuckey: I'd give him a shot to start. May as well see if he has a future at S.
Thomas: Missed too much time in the offseason to be considered as a potential starter this year.


Obviously we are better at OLB with Ingram. I would have liked to have drafted an OLB early to beef bookend Ingram but if English plays like this for a full season we are not as bad as we could be. If he gets hurt, a real possibility given his history, then we are going to have issues. Pagano has recently said he sees Freeney as an every down player. I don't. Spin moves are not effective against the run.

As far as talent goes I think we have a pretty decent core of starters, upper middle in the league, when it comes to defense. But when depth is considered we have huge dropoffs at nearly every position should a starter go down.

We just signed a corner who, from what I've read, is almost as good as our starters (if not better). Cox is supposed to be decent when he plays. Wright gets talked up a lot on this board, but I'll believe he's good when I see it. Last year, he couldn't convince Pagano that he was better than Jammer or Cason. Anyway, that guy we just signed. He might be better than Wright. There's some depth for you.

But, you're right. Not much depth at many positions. At least not much proven depth.

[QSmokey]

Meachem's dead money hit would take place next year along with the hit we take with Gaither ($7-8M between them). If we find a way to keep Meachem on the roster this season then we can cut him at the end of the season, designate him as a June 1 cut, and put the dead money into the following year. Starks' money is all in this season and he only cost us $160 to cut him, which would not count against the cap. Just don't see Starks sticking with this team as a backup you really don't want in there. Harris appears to be better in pass protection.

Starks' lunch money.

[Den60]

We just signed a corner who, from what I've read, is almost as good as our starters (if not better). Cox is supposed to be decent when he plays. Wright gets talked up a lot on this board, but I'll believe he's good when I see it. Last year, he couldn't convince Pagano that he was better than Jammer or Cason. Anyway, that guy we just signed. He might be better than Wright. There's some depth for you.

But, you're right. Not much depth at many positions. At least not much proven depth.

I mention Marshall after I did Patrick. Can't say anything about him being good, bad or indifferent. What I can say is that Miami feels they can push for a division title (and seeing how bad NE has looked that is not the impossible dream) and they cut him. They were $17M under the cap when they did so. Teams generally don't get rid of starting caliber CBs willingly without a reason.

[Den60]

Starks' lunch money.

Forgot the special "K."

[TABF]

What does meh mean?

Meh meaning... Meeeeh, who gives a shit about his stats... He did his job...

[Thunder Thighs]

The defensive starters have been pretty good so far. There's some negativity about Patrick at NB, but I think Marshall will help out there. The safeties other than Weddle haven't exactly been lighting it up. Bird is not the word, but I'm looking forward to seeing what Te'o can do. Other than that, the defensive starters have been solid. Liuget takes the defense up to a much higher level, so I hope he stays healthy. Freeney has also been a difference maker who steps up the entire defense when he is in.

The offensive starters are okay, except for Mathews who has been killing it and will be playing in the Pro Bowl if he keeps it up. The rest of the offense has been middle of the road. Rivers really hasn't made any bad decisions, so that is encouraging. The two interceptions were unfortunate but they are not ugly like some of the int's the past two years. Floyd, Brown, and Allen are a good serviceable group of receivers who will help move the chains. They don't really strike the fear into defenses though. Gates is moving well but he is not the same player he was. Green can be special as his replacement if he continues to develop. Looks like Woodhead needs to click more with Rivers. They didn't seem in tune with each other last night.

While the o-line could be improved with more talent, none of the starters need to be replaced. They are a competent group. The Chicago game had me thinking that Rivers and the o-line are not quite fixed. But McCoy put Starks in and that might have messed with the chemistry. Dunlap has been quite the pleasant surprise so far and I am comfortable with him starting the season. He is surprisingly agile. I was expecting a lumbering type of big man. I love the Rinehart signing. He is bringing it. Clary is a better guard than Vasquez was for us. There, I said it. Clary is more physical than Vasquez. For such a big ugly man Vasquez never pancaked anyone. With the better guard play, Hardwick seems a bit rejuvenated. He seems to be playing nastier. Fluker, just paint the guy green and call him the Incredible Hulk. He's destroying defenses. I bet he's pissed at himself that he got beat for a couple of sacks, so he's going to turn it on and go on a rampage. I think this kid is hightly motivated to do well. You can see his passion on the field. I think he has the potential to be a special player, better than the guys taken before him in the draft. I hope the o-line holds up, because it would be nice to draft an impact player other than o-line next spring in the first round.

[Coachmarkos]

Harris may have played a bit better than Starks at Left Tackle last night for a few plays...but he's been BRUTAL at RT, even last night.

The way I understand it, and I'm no rocket scientist...the swing tackle should be able to play either side.

Starks isn't great...but Harris has struggled at RT in all 3 preseason games, and we all saw how he did as a starting RT last year.