Gordon training with the best

[BoltBacker]

Rivers is leading the team. Gordon can help if he gets blocking and can protect the football. If he's fumbling, all he's doing is losing.

Are you serious? Rivers has not taken the Chargers anywhere lately. He needs help, talented good help. Gordon is the running part, without him Rivers will be in trouble again.

If San Diego wants to be a contender everyone who is supposed to be next level talent has to perform that way. I put Rivers, KA, and Gordon in that category. On top of that our O-line has to stay healthy and become cohesive. If that happens we are a playoff team. Of those three RIVERS is obviously the most important, having a good backup is irrelevant because if he goes down so do our hopes. After Rivers though Gordon is the next most important. As good as KA is, if he gets hurt Rivers can mask it a bit in the passing game for a short time. Gordon on the other hand needs to take a burden off Rivers by being that bell cow back.

He won't do it without improvement off his terrible rookie season. He needs to memorize his responsibilities in protection and protect the ball when running. Additionally the O-line needs to protect and make holes.

When you have a team with limited top-talent you have to maximize it and the Chargers can't afford to have a failed first round pick at this point in time.

[Lightningwill_420]

Are you serious? Rivers has not taken the Chargers anywhere lately. He needs help, talented good help. Gordon is the running part, without him Rivers will be in trouble again.

If San Diego wants to be a contender everyone who is supposed to be next level talent has to perform that way. I put Rivers, KA, and Gordon in that category. On top of that our O-line has to stay healthy and become cohesive. If that happens we are a playoff team. Of those three RIVERS is obviously the most important, having a good backup is irrelevant because if he goes down so do our hopes. After Rivers though Gordon is the next most important. As good as KA is, if he gets hurt Rivers can mask it a bit in the passing game for a short time. Gordon on the other hand needs to take a burden off Rivers by being that bell cow back.

He won't do it without improvement off his terrible rookie season. He needs to memorize his responsibilities in protection and protect the ball when running. Additionally the O-line needs to protect and make holes.

When you have a team with limited top-talent you have to maximize it and the Chargers can't afford to have a failed first round pick at this point in time.

Except for your thesis, we agree. And, yes, I am cereal.

[richpjr]

Are you serious? Rivers has not taken the Chargers anywhere lately. He needs help, talented good help. Gordon is the running part, without him Rivers will be in trouble again.

If San Diego wants to be a contender everyone who is supposed to be next level talent has to perform that way. I put Rivers, KA, and Gordon in that category. On top of that our O-line has to stay healthy and become cohesive. If that happens we are a playoff team. Of those three RIVERS is obviously the most important, having a good backup is irrelevant because if he goes down so do our hopes. After Rivers though Gordon is the next most important. As good as KA is, if he gets hurt Rivers can mask it a bit in the passing game for a short time. Gordon on the other hand needs to take a burden off Rivers by being that bell cow back.

He won't do it without improvement off his terrible rookie season. He needs to memorize his responsibilities in protection and protect the ball when running. Additionally the O-line needs to protect and make holes.

When you have a team with limited top-talent you have to maximize it and the Chargers can't afford to have a failed first round pick at this point in time.

IMO, the defense stepping up and the oline staying somewhat healthy are far more important to the team than Gordon is. I think he has a breakout year, but don't think the team is doomed if he doesn't.

[Lightningwill_420]

IMO, the defense stepping up and the oline staying somewhat healthy are far more important to the team than Gordon is. I think he has a breakout year, but don't think the team is doomed if he doesn't.

Word to the Tuerk

[Steve]

We can't afford to miss on any draft picks these days, because of FA signings under TT (Franklin, Cox) and poor drafts under AJ. That is true for most teams as well. 70 players per team (including injuries), an average career length of 5 years, means 12-14 player per year on average. You need to get players in lots of different ways. If you don't hit on your high picks, those are the guys you count on to be top players and last longer than average. If you can get pro bowl caliber guys who play for 8-10 years at other means of aquiring the player, then 1st round misses don't matter much. But we don't seem to find those very good/great players anywhere, so that is the real issue.

Rivers has been carrying the franhcise for years. But it is a team sport, and if 1 player has to carry a team, it means the team sucks. I think the skill players are in good shape, but we desperately need help on OL and D. Guys need to start to play up to their potential. Rivers can still play at a high level, but Brady, Elway and Manning showed
that many of their best years were wasted on poor teams, and they have nothing to show for it. But all of those guys have SB rings when they were on good teams, and even Ben R. won a SB when he was a liability (vs Seattle). QB is only 1 part of the equation, and it offsets liabilities some, but it won't cover up for the fact that we are just not a good team.

If Oliver can step up and be a franchise caliber RB, that would be great, but even then, NFL teams don't use a singled featured RB for a reason. You need at least 2 good RB to carry the load or you are screwed. That doesn't even count Woodhead as the 3rd down/slot guy, since most featured RB don't play that role anyway.

[Steve]

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/19434/adrian-petersons-fumble-fixes-boxing-gloves-and-brazilian-jiu-jitsu

I found this article interesting since Peterson had fumble problems earlier in his career and sorta kinda got them fixed.

Adrian Peterson's fumble fixes: Boxing gloves and Brazilian jiu jitsu
Jul 21, 2016
Ben Goessling
ESPN Staff Writer

HOUSTON -- As Adrian Peterson prepares to drive his legs forward, straining against the 430 pounds of resistance loaded into the cable attached to his waist, James Cooper tightens the wrist straps on his boxing gloves and readies his best shots. "If this doesn't get it out," Cooper says, "I don't know what to tell you."

Cooper pounds on the football tucked under Peterson's right arm, first with a series of heavy right hands, then with a flurry of rights and lefts as Peterson stretches the tension of the 40-yard rope. "Keep going, keep going," Cooper grunts, as he levies his final attempts to dislodge the ball from Peterson's grip. It does not move, and Cooper yields.

Peterson will complete 10 rounds of the exercise next week in one of the final workouts before he boards a plane to Minnesota and begins a season he believes could conclude right back here in the Super Bowl in 199 days. Peterson and Cooper have returned to the drill often in their decade of work together, but especially after the years when lost fumbles have hurt the running back's chances of reaching his first Super Bowl. They fixated on it after Peterson lost seven fumbles in the 2009 season and had a part in three during the Vikings' NFC Championship Game loss to the New Orleans Saints. During the 2010 season, Peterson's only fumble came when a teammate inadvertently kicked the ball out of his grip.

They return to it again to remedy a problem that resurfaced with seven regular-season fumbles in 2015 and one that left Peterson despondent following his fourth-quarter cough-up in the Vikings' 10-9 playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks in January. Fumbling has not defined the running back's career, at least not to this point; both Eric Dickerson and Walter Payton fumbled on a greater percentage of their touches than Peterson has in his nine seasons. But it has helped end the seasons of perhaps the best two Vikings teams Peterson has played on, and he seems determined not to let it affect a third.

"Don't get me wrong: It was a heck of a play by those guys," Peterson said at his gym on Wednesday. "One (linebacker K.J. Wright) had my arm; the other (safety Kam Chancellor) ripped the ball. It's not like it was punched out, or it was an easy give-up. They worked for it. But being able to have that arm pulled and still have that thing tight, or having the awareness to let your body weight go down and try to get your knee down, that could have prevented that. That's what goes through my mind."

In the days after the Vikings' loss, Peterson admitted he'd been too cavalier about his fumbles during the season, when he'd joked about how most of them had been recovered by his own team. He told former Vikings running backs coach Kirby Wilson -- who had chided Peterson about his technique -- that he was ready to take it seriously. And in the offseason, a technique tip arrived from an unlikely source: Peterson's old high school quarterback.

"He said, 'You know, Adrian, I’ve been doing some studying and watching your films and stuff, and I think I found out why you’re losing the ball,'" Peterson said. "Basically what it was, because I ran track -- that’s like my second love -- he’s like, 'Every time you run through, you already run high anyway, but once you get through the hole, you get loose with it. You gotta get away from that track mode, and that presents it for people to come in and punch it.'"

The 6-foot-1, 220-pound Peterson also knows there are more than a few NFL defenders looking for alternatives to corralling one of the game's fiercest runners. "When you've got people who are more focused on,'OK, I kind of don’t want to tackle him anyways; let’s find another way to slow him down,' they are focused more on punching that ball out," he said. "That's something I just have to realize and make sure I eliminate that."

Cooper is one of Peterson's partners at O Athletik and presides over a training group that often tops two dozen NFL players during the summer. Vikings defensive end Danielle Hunter has worked out there this offseason, and defensive tackle Tom Johnson and receiver Charles Johnson were among the players working out Wednesday. Buffalo Bills defensive end Jerry Hughes is there, as is Washington Redskins tight end Jordan Reed and Tennessee Titans safety Da'Norris Searcy. But in the final days before training camp, part of Cooper's focus will turn to Peterson and the young back who asked to train at his side this offseason: the San Diego Chargers' Melvin Gordon.


Second-year running back Melvin Gordon is trying to shed a reputation as a fumbler in San Diego.
Before a left knee injury ended his season, Gordon had run for 641 yards in the Chargers' first 14 games. He'd also fallen into the same snare as the running back he grew up idolizing: Gordon fumbled six times last season, and while an offseason with Peterson presented two immediate benefits -- learning from his role model and being trained by the man who directed Peterson's famous rehab from knee surgery in 2012 -- Gordon discovered a third.

"I talked to Adrian about it, and he said, 'The biggest thing about the lack of ball security is, it's a mental thing,'" said Gordon, the Heisman Trophy runner-up in 2014. "You can do a lot of drills, but you can still go out there and mess up if you're not mentally focused on it. It's [having that reminder of], 'Someone's there. Someone's always there [trying to take it].'"

Peterson and Gordon took their turns fending off Cooper's punches, and a few verbal jabs -- "You might want to take off your little Mr. T. starter kit," the trainer chirped to Gordon about the gold chain he was wearing before the drill. Then, the two running backs shifted to a mat, where Cooper set up a drill he'd adapted from Brazilian jujitsu. Both backs tumbled over a balance ball, landing on their feet or placing a hand on the ground to steady themselves before rising and regaining their stride with a football still tucked under one arm, in a move designed to improve balance and awareness while going to the ground. This time, Gordon handled the drill more gracefully, while Peterson tended to charge the balance ball rather than decelerate and roll over it, leading to several stumbles.

"This drill busts his butt every time," Cooper said, "because he doesn't run like this. He's used to running a certain way, so this gets him out of it. That's why this is so dynamic: It makes an old dog have to learn new tricks."

For Peterson, before a season filled with opportunity to define his legacy, it might be more about eliminating old habits.

"[The punches are] more of an instinctual trigger than a hit," Peterson said. "It's kind of like going through that front line, where you've got arms coming, you've got legs coming. It really makes you clench on it even more and keep it tight."

Table from Article
Fumbles By Season
The number of fumbles and fumbles lost for Vikings running back Adrian Peterson in each of his NFL regular seasons.
YEAR GP FUM LOST
2007 14 4 3
2008 16 9 4
2009 16 6 5
2010 15 1 1
2011 12 1 0
2012 16 3 2
2013 14 3 2
2014 1 0 0
2015 16 6 3

[Heatmiser]

Yes, except in Peterson's case, he had problems, he corrected them, they came back!

Gordon should talk to Tiki Barber. He was a big time fumbler who overcame it and never had a problem again.

I wonder is Ollie losing it? Mathews had the same issues in the NFL after not really being a fumbler in college, just like Gordon. Is Wilson not teaching something properly?

TG

[Lightningwill_420]

Why talk to a child ball beater when Gordon could talk to the coolest runner of all-time? LaDainian was a tumbler who became the best non-fumbler in the game.

I noticed I wrote tumbler instead of fumbler. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have to edit all my messages. I never get my grammar and spelling right on the first draft.

[floydefisher]

Nothing to do with the video but i expect Gordon to break out in a big way this year. The only way the Chargers contend is with a running game, the only way that happens is if Gordon becomes a big part of our attack.

McCoy needs to use him early and often, if there is a fumble it needs to be brushed aside. If the team "head coach" commits to Gordon it will boost his confidence and help him from getting down on himself. Some players you bench to motivate and some you support. Gordon is obviously the later and a good coach would adjust the approach this year.

My big fear is McCoy doesn't realize he is tied to Gordon. If Gordon fails so will McCoy and maybe the Chargers in San Diego as well. So don't let momentum of pessimism build the first time Gordon puts a ball on the ground.

He didn't do that with Matthews, so why would he do that with Gordon?

[Steve]

Yes, except in Peterson's case, he had problems, he corrected them, they came back!

Gordon should talk to Tiki Barber. He was a big time fumbler who overcame it and never had a problem again.

I wonder is Ollie losing it? Mathews had the same issues in the NFL after not really being a fumbler in college, just like Gordon. Is Wilson not teaching something properly?

TG

I don't think it is ever a thing that is fixed. I think if a player has to work to protect the ball, it is something they will always have to make an effort to do. It mentions a couple of paragraphs in, that they had to revisit the anti-fumble drills, which to me says that they stopped for some reason. Fumbling and pass protection problems are the biggest sins a RB can have, so it is something that needs to be on the list every offseason.

The bungee thing is a Wilson thing, at least according to a former NFL player and a guy my brother used to coach with. I know they did it with Mathews but never did get him right. I think the real problem is too many RB these days are sloppy in how they carry the ball at lower levels of football, and can get away with it there. With so many teams running spread offenses, players can get away without guys pawing over them punching the ball out. But in the NFL, too many big strong guys all over you, and no space, so more fumbles.

[Heatmiser]

Thanks, Steve.

What I take away from the Adrian Peterson fumbling-not fumbling- fumbling again is that this is largely mental. Yes you can teach techniques, but I think once a player gets it in his head that he might lose the ball...he does! Just like kickers can go into slumps, I think RBs can, too, with fumbling. And of course it is a vicious cycle because defenses become even more aggressive with a guy who has coughed it up and it leads to more fumbles, rinse repeat.

TG