Chargers GM Joe Hortiz - Discussion

[Bolt4Knob]

It was common sense to me

The Chargers go into the off season with probably the fewest draft picks in the NFL ..only 5...and those top picks are not ideally situated at 22, 55. 86. But you did have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL at 99 million

The GM's stubborn system aside...where do you think the most opportunity to improve the team to compete for the division in the tough AFC West came from?

I will give credit to Hortiz for this -- he didn't panic and overpay at WR on say Mike Evans just because he didn't get Pierce. And it seems Evans wanted the Niners

And for the most part, I have liked the signings -.

End of the day, wins in January will tell the story

[DerwinBosa]

I want to address the common refrain on this board that after doing very little in free agency to upgrade guard play. Joe Hortiz can fix it all with the draft.

Now that the combine is over, free agency is mostly over the mock drafts are setting and getting more realistic. I have been looking at mocks very closely. Not the fantasy mocks that have Ioane or Fano there at 22 or Bisontis there at 55,,,but realistic mocks. I encourage you all to do the same.

It is a pretty sobering reality. The truth is that where the Charger picks are situated in each round 22, 55, 86 is just not ideal for getting the guards we covet.

Lets look at this realistically...barring any trade

22 pick - Ioane and Fano are gone. The move for BPA and value for Hortiz at 22 will likely be edge...2 available players that fit the Chargers would be Messidor or my preference TJ Parker

55 pick - Pregnon and Bisontis are going between 33 and 44, long gone by 55. The best guard prospect left at 55 is moving Gennings Dunker from tackle to guard. It feels a little early for Kaylen Rutledge at 55 but he might not be there at 86. A familiar pattern. Dunker isn't a bad option, he probably has the athleticism for outside zone, but moving from his college position of tackle and learning the NFL is he going to be a plug and play starter right away? That leaves Penning as opening starter.

86 pick...Maybe Rutledge is still there or you draft Brian Parker who can also play center. Sold pick but again is he ready to be a starter? If I am missing a good guard prospect please let me know but without a trade.... getting the best 4 guard prospects for zone...Ioane, Fano, Pregnon, Bisontis looks very difficult from where the Chargers draft.

Trying to be realistic here, not negative. The more I look, the more I see that where the Chargers draft picks fall is not ideal for the best IOL prospects .That is why I personally hoped Joe would cover the IOL bases a little better now in free agency. I do not see how it can be automatically assumed the draft will fall in a way to assure us a good starting guard.

Thanks for the laugh. Lol.

[wu-dai clan]

I want to address the common refrain on this board that after doing very little in free agency to upgrade guard play. Joe Hortiz can fix it all with the draft.

Now that the combine is over, free agency is mostly over the mock drafts are setting and getting more realistic. I have been looking at mocks very closely. Not the fantasy mocks that have Ioane or Fano there at 22 or Bisontis there at 55,,,but realistic mocks. I encourage you all to do the same.

It is a pretty sobering reality. The truth is that where the Charger picks are situated in each round 22, 55, 86 is just not ideal for getting the guards we covet.

Lets look at this realistically...barring any trade

22 pick - Ioane and Fano are gone. The move for BPA and value for Hortiz at 22 will likely be edge...2 available players that fit the Chargers would be Messidor or my preference TJ Parker

55 pick - Pregnon and Bisontis are going between 33 and 44, long gone by 55. The best guard prospect left at 55 is moving Gennings Dunker from tackle to guard. It feels a little early for Kaylen Rutledge at 55 but he might not be there at 86. A familiar pattern. Dunker isn't a bad option, he probably has the athleticism for outside zone, but moving from his college position of tackle and learning the NFL is he going to be a plug and play starter right away? That leaves Penning as opening starter.

86 pick...Maybe Rutledge is still there or you draft Brian Parker who can also play center. Sold pick but again is he ready to be a starter? If I am missing a good guard prospect please let me know but without a trade.... getting the best 4 guard prospects for zone...Ioane, Fano, Pregnon, Bisontis looks very difficult from where the Chargers draft.

Trying to be realistic here, not negative. The more I look, the more I see that where the Chargers draft picks fall is not ideal for the best IOL prospects .That is why I personally hoped Joe would cover the IOL bases a little better now in free agency. I do not see how it can be automatically assumed the draft will fall in a way to assure us a good starting guard.

You could be entirely correct. However there is wide variance in 32 big boards, guaranteed, in this particular draft. So, I propose a slight overdraft of Pregnon.

TBH I see the draft possibly, even probably, going like this. The Chargers go for "game deciders" rounds 1, 2, & 3, and wait until day 3 to mine value wide zone guards. Penning and Strange can be seen as buffers for this, as we wait for say, Schrauth, Stephens, Farmer, Baynes, or someone under the radar, to develop.

Part of my draft prep is toughening up for the Friday night revolution on TPB.

[ThorsHammer]

Scared money don't make money.

You can't be afraid to win. And right now, the Chargers are operating as a team wanting to not lose over winning with how the last ten days have gone.

I realize Unc isn't get 3m - he needs to quiet down in the media about about not getting paid - its just not the Chargers not paying him. So just get over it dude - you are a 34 year old safety

I totally get that. 100% agree. But at the same time reflect on how well making a "splash" worked out for us last year. And I really didn't see anyone worthy of takin a flyer on this year.

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[DerwinBosa]

I totally get that. 100% agree. But at the same time reflect on how well making a "splash" worked out for us last year. And I really didn't see anyone worthy of takin a flyer on this year.

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What's funny is most of this forum wanted Hortiz to sign Becton on Day 1 of free agency last and for a longer contract. He waited until later in the week and gave him a short-term contract that allowed us to release him with little cap ramifications this offseason if he didn't work out. Thank goodness Hortiz is the general manager. With the members of this forum making the personnel decisions, we'd be in cap hell worse than Telesco put is in.

[21&500]

I was all in on Linderbaum but
is this what some wanted?
Honestly?

[Bolt4Knob]

What's funny is most of this forum wanted Hortiz to sign Becton on Day 1 of free agency last and for a longer contract. He waited until later in the week and gave him a short-term contract that allowed us to release him with little cap ramifications this offseason if he didn't work out. Thank goodness Hortiz is the general manager. With the members of this forum making the personnel decisions, we'd be in cap hell worse than Telesco put is in.

Ask Indy fans if they like Chris Ballard

This was the Ballard model. Sign players later in free agency, not create future cap problems. How many playoffs wins under Ballard?

GMs can take many paths -- but are they winning playoff games - that is all that matter. Now Hortiz, I get the idea of surplus signings. But you still have to do your work in finding the right players.
Now Strange might just be finding himself as a player - going in to Year 5 I think, second year with not only McD but Barry, McCaffrey, Chandler guy -- so maybe for Cole Strange, it was time to grow into an NFL player. I think he went to a small school -- had to look it up - Chatanooga - so can only hope he is coming into his own

[dmac_bolt]

I want to address the common refrain on this board that after doing very little in free agency to upgrade guard play. Joe Hortiz can fix it all with the draft.

Now that the combine is over, free agency is mostly over the mock drafts are setting and getting more realistic. I have been looking at mocks very closely. Not the fantasy mocks that have Ioane or Fano there at 22 or Bisontis there at 55,,,but realistic mocks. I encourage you all to do the same.

It is a pretty sobering reality. The truth is that where the Charger picks are situated in each round 22, 55, 86 is just not ideal for getting the guards we covet.

Lets look at this realistically...barring any trade

22 pick - Ioane and Fano are gone. The move for BPA and value for Hortiz at 22 will likely be edge...2 available players that fit the Chargers would be Messidor or my preference TJ Parker

55 pick - Pregnon and Bisontis are going between 33 and 44, long gone by 55. The best guard prospect left at 55 is moving Gennings Dunker from tackle to guard. It feels a little early for Kaylen Rutledge at 55 but he might not be there at 86. A familiar pattern. Dunker isn't a bad option, he probably has the athleticism for outside zone, but moving from his college position of tackle and learning the NFL is he going to be a plug and play starter right away? That leaves Penning as opening starter.

86 pick...Maybe Rutledge is still there or you draft Brian Parker who can also play center. Sold pick but again is he ready to be a starter? If I am missing a good guard prospect please let me know but without a trade.... getting the best 4 guard prospects for zone...Ioane, Fano, Pregnon, Bisontis looks very difficult from where the Chargers draft.

Trying to be realistic here, not negative. The more I look, the more I see that where the Chargers draft picks fall is not ideal for the best IOL prospects .That is why I personally hoped Joe would cover the IOL bases a little better now in free agency. I do not see how it can be automatically assumed the draft will fall in a way to assure us a good starting guard.

how about Hecht?

[DerwinBosa]

Ask Indy fans if they like Chris Ballard

This was the Ballard model. Sign players later in free agency, not create future cap problems. How many playoffs wins under Ballard?

GMs can take many paths -- but are they winning playoff games - that is all that matter. Now Hortiz, I get the idea of surplus signings. But you still have to do your work in finding the right players.
Now Strange might just be finding himself as a player - going in to Year 5 I think, second year with not only McD but Barry, McCaffrey, Chandler guy -- so maybe for Cole Strange, it was time to grow into an NFL player. I think he went to a small school -- had to look it up - Chatanooga - so can only hope he is coming into his own

I don't see why I would do that at all. I look at the way Ozzie ******* and the Ravens do things, because that's where Hortiz developed into a general manager. If not for Lamar Jackson crumbling in the playoffs, the Ravens probably have Super Bowl championships in 2019 and 2023.

My hope is once everything is put together, Herbert will stop crumbling in the playoffs himself.

[CanadianBoltFan]

Thanks for the laugh. Lol.

Ok lay it out for me

Where do those top 4 guards go according to your wisdom?

[Bolt4Knob]

I don't see why I would do that at all. I look at the way Ozzie ******* and the Ravens do things, because that's where Hortiz developed into a general manager. If not for Lamar Jackson crumbling in the playoffs, the Ravens probably have Super Bowl championships in 2019 and 2023.

My hope is once everything is put together, Herbert will stop crumbling in the playoffs himself.

That is fair - there are varied GM styles to look at.

So the reason the Chargers keep losing playoff games is solely Justin Herbert. Based on the last two years, they would be a 6 win team without Herbert each year depending on the QB
Hortiz , the front office, the coaching staff has failed the team in playoffs 100 fold over Herbert

[CanadianBoltFan]

You could be entirely correct. However there is wide variance in 32 big boards, guaranteed, in this particular draft. So, I propose a slight overdraft of Pregnon.

TBH I see the draft possibly, even probably, going like this. The Chargers go for "game deciders" rounds 1, 2, & 3, and wait until day 3 to mine value wide zone guards. Penning and Strange can be seen as buffers for this, as we wait for say, Schrauth, Stephens, Farmer, Baynes, or someone under the radar, to develop.

Part of my draft prep is toughening up for the Friday night revolution on TPB.

You propose Pregnon at 22? It might just come down to that.

Pregnon is good enough to start but I can't pat Mr BPA Hortiz on the back for leaving himself in this position either. It goes against everything he talks about

Fuck it though just get Pregnon maybe. Like most I am very sick of watching this team held back by o line woes.