Goodbye Keenan Allen - WR Discussion

[CanadianBoltFan]

Trust is a funny thing, it’s generally earned not given. Harbaugh needs to win and win a lot to get my trust. I’m not going to blindly give it like some cult looney. So far he’s not exactly crushing it but I need to see some on the field results before I start blindly trusting the guy.

Well then it sounds like you need to wait 6 months to see the actual starting roster and results on the field before freaking out and slagging Harbaugh and Hortiz. I think Harbaugh's record speaks for himself and has earned more than 1 month of faith.

[Budsman]

KA chose not to take a pay cut saying 'I just had my best year - no way'. That was his right. Interesting that Mack just had his 'best year' but still chose to take a pay cut - and he's still here . . . . . . . . Allen thought he had all the leverage - and now he's gone.

There was more at play with the contract negotiations with Bosa, Mack, and KA than meets the eye . . . . . . It wasn't all just about the money. I believe it was also a test - to see who really wanted to be here. IMO all 3 of these guys were handled and responded differently;

Bosa they knew was motivated by money and prestige, so they set up a contract framework to use this to their advantage (for 2024 season only), and mitigate the hit if he should continue to be injury prone,
Allen they tested to see if he was about the money or the team - Allen took the money,
Mack passed the same test that Allen failed - the only one of the 3 who had leverage but chose not to exercise it - accepting a pay cut to help the team

I see Hortiz and Harbaugh navigating the resurrection of this team very skillfully . . . . . . . . . hopefully they'll kill the draft as well, whether we trade down or not. The difference between previous management (Staley / Telesco) and current management is STARK . . . . . . . . . . . .

This mindset is puzzling. Why are the players the only ones expected to think of the team? Harbaugh just used all his leverage and milked the Spanos for 16 mil a year, and good for him! But then to turn around and think that the players need to accept a pay cut for money they earned is hypocritical and absurd.

Yeah Bosa and Mack did, good for them, frankly I think it’s wrong to ask them to take a pay cut. They both earned their money and as we know NFL players get screwed by ownership all the time. Asking them ti sacrifice while Harbaugh enjoys his well earned new contract is pretty crappy.

If that’s the type of corporate, do as we say not as we do, leaders that you think are going to win over a locker room in the NFL you’re mistaken. Harbaugh has shown he can motivate college kids to championships, he didn’t win it all in the NFL and was run out of town due to personality issues last time. He’s not without his own faults and putting our head in the sand and pretending he can do no wrong is just silly.

[Budsman]

One thing you are wrong about.

Top WR is easily more replacable than a top tier edge rusher.

Look no farther than the 2024 draft. It is absolutely stacked in WRs more than any other position with 20-25 WRs expected to go in top 100 picks.

Jeremiah has 3 WRs ranked in his top 4 picks of the entire draft.

Keenan's production last year wouldnt be repeated by Keenan himself in LA or Chicago this year. It was slanted because Williams went out in week 3 and there was no running game. While the stats were great last year for Keenan personally they were not great for the Charger offense which was very predictable and easy to defend.

The top 3 WRs in this draft are elite studs, better prospects than Keenan ever was when he came out of college.

Disagree, look at year one production from all the round 1 WRs recently and then look at DE. It’s clear that WRs take more time to get productive than DE.

I don’t care, the three will at best produce what Allen did year one. Yes they will be better long term but next year in the year we could keep Allen, they will not out perform him.

[Budsman]

The difference Bosa and Mack took pay cuts to stay, KA didn't. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Cool, and that is a good reason to cut your best offensive weapon and waste a year or two of JHs prime? This team is NOT better without Allen next year. After that he was done anyway, the fourth is a giant crap shoot.

[Budsman]

Well then it sounds like you need to wait 6 months to see the actual starting roster and results on the field before freaking out and slagging Harbaugh and Hortiz. I think Harbaugh's record speaks for himself and has earned more than 1 month of faith.

Harbaugh hasn’t won a game for the Chargers. If I were a Wolverine fan I would give him all the trust in the world. Until he proves anything he’s just another coach.

[Budsman]

Correct. As a 10+ year player, non QB - they max out at 5th round comp picks

Plus that would also mean that the Chargers were not players in free agency - and fans want the front office to sign players in free agency

You’re right, good call. I didn’t see that addendum at the bottom until you mentioned it. Fair enough. From a value perspective it’s better from a team being better perspective it’s not.

[Budsman]

Fuck, how many times do we need to post that the MAX comp pick for a 10 yr vet is a 5th, by rule. And it would be in 2026.

Literally the first time that was posted was two or three posts above yours. You act like it was said a bunch and I admitted already after seeing it for the FIRST time and doing my homework and looking up the actual rule that’s an addendum to the way it works that yes it is correct.

[Budsman]

I see a couple things in the last 10 pages it took me to catch up

1. Some are pissed because KA is an icon. Ok, thats emotional, i feel ya. you hang in there. All players leave eventually, no reason for outbursts
2. Some are worried he was their top receiver last year and JH has no weapons. Today thats technically true - but Its Mar 16th. wait till JH2 build their roster
3. Some are still pissed Joey was restructured/pay cut after not playing much at all. That has nothing to do with this unless you make it about this.
4. Some think it’s about culture, fit, vision, blah blah. Naw - its about cap.
5. Some are ok, willing to see what JH2 do. Good for you, thats the smart play here.

You guys are just spitting at Joe’s car down on the freeway from an overpass. You have no idea where LAC are going and you’re not hitting anything. Wasting your time here.

I appreciate your happy to wait and see and I think we all are hopeful it all turns out great and we win lots of games and all peace merrily into the playoffs and beyond. But some of us don’t like trading away our best weapon left on the team who clearly has a very good rapport with Herbert. Some of us aren’t happy with a rebuild in our star QBs prime 50 million+ years.

I don’t think criticism of moves is rare on this forum and while you can disagree it doesn’t make it any better. How many times on here have people criticized coaches and FO and been yelled down only later to be vindicated. I’ll answer it for you, too damn many to count.

[Budsman]

And lets just play the game. The Chargers keep Allen - he plays out the 2024 season, free agent, signs for big money in spring 2025 and chargers would get a comp pick in the 5th Round

But to get that pick - they pretty much would have to stay out of the free agent market as anybody they sign worth a damn would cancel out Allen.

A 2026 5th round pick is basically a 7th round pick in 2024

As the pick in 2024 is pick 111 - what is that, the 9th pick of the 4th round. The comp pick in 2026 would be the end of the 5th round - so really thats like a late 6th or early 7th this year

Yeah fair, but playing it out what happens when we make the playoffs by a game and Allen was a big reason we got there. Are you ok trading away a chance at the playoffs for a 4th? I’m not.

[DerwinBosa]

This mindset is puzzling. Why are the players the only ones expected to think of the team? Harbaugh just used all his leverage and milked the Spanos for 16 mil a year, and good for him! But then to turn around and think that the players need to accept a pay cut for money they earned is hypocritical and absurd.

Yeah Bosa and Mack did, good for them, frankly I think it’s wrong to ask them to take a pay cut. They both earned their money and as we know NFL players get screwed by ownership all the time. Asking them ti sacrifice while Harbaugh enjoys his well earned new contract is pretty crappy.

If that’s the type of corporate, do as we say not as we do, leaders that you think are going to win over a locker room in the NFL you’re mistaken. Harbaugh has shown he can motivate college kids to championships, he didn’t win it all in the NFL and was run out of town due to personality issues last time. He’s not without his own faults and putting our head in the sand and pretending he can do no wrong is just silly.

Coaches don't count toward the salary cap. Players do.

Harbaugh played 14 NFL seasons. As a starting quarterback most of those seasons he probably didn't make 1/20 of what Keenan has in his career. Keenan is currently making more as a player than Harbaugh is as a head coach. So, no, it's not hypocritical or absurd for Harbaugh to ask Keenan to accept a pay cut or restructure in order to help improve the team's salary cap situation.

Keenan said no. That's his right. Good for him. Best of luck in Chicago. He's moving on. I think some on here should, too.

[Budsman]

Coaches don't count toward the salary cap. Players do.

Harbaugh played 14 NFL seasons. As a starting quarterback most of those seasons he probably didn't make 1/20 of what Keenan has in his career. Keenan is currently making more as a player than Harbaugh is as a head coach. So, no, it's not hypocritical or absurd for Harbaugh to ask Keenan to accept a pay cut or restructure in order to help improve the team's salary cap situation.

Keenan said no. That's his right. Good for him. Best of luck in Chicago. He's moving on. I think some on here should, too.

Nice lead from the front coach we got there if that’s true. I suspect it’s not that and it’s purely salary cap and they planned to trade Keenan from the beginning. You don’t go ask a team leader after one of their best seasons to take a pay cut. They knew what they were doing and this gave them the smoke screen they needed.

I also love the whole he didn’t get paid 1/20th of what Keenan is making as if that’s Keenan’s fault and he should pay for it. It sounds like you don’t realize that revenue and owners profits have gone way up since then so what’s your point?

Harbaugh knows that he is tearing down this team and creating it in his image and he doesn’t care about the next year and is betting on two or three more years in the future. We have to hope he’s right or we waste all of Herbert’s prime years.

[Lefty2SLO]

This mindset is puzzling. Why are the players the only ones expected to think of the team? Harbaugh just used all his leverage and milked the Spanos for 16 mil a year, and good for him! But then to turn around and think that the players need to accept a pay cut for money they earned is hypocritical and absurd.

Yeah Bosa and Mack did, good for them, frankly I think it’s wrong to ask them to take a pay cut. They both earned their money and as we know NFL players get screwed by ownership all the time. Asking them ti sacrifice while Harbaugh enjoys his well earned new contract is pretty crappy.

If that’s the type of corporate, do as we say not as we do, leaders that you think are going to win over a locker room in the NFL you’re mistaken. Harbaugh has shown he can motivate college kids to championships, he didn’t win it all in the NFL and was run out of town due to personality issues last time. He’s not without his own faults and putting our head in the sand and pretending he can do no wrong is just silly.

It's really not that puzzling. It's a capped system. Who else IS there to ask for cap relief? The cap only applies to the players, and we're only talking about the top players who are (and have) made many millions off the team already. No-one's asking Scott Matlock to take a pay cut. The team needed the cap relief, Keenan was asked to help. I don't blame Keenan for not taking a haircut, but after all the years of making bank it shows where he's at.

Team; Keenan - we gave you an 80 mil fully guaranteed contract extension in 2020, and have paid you umpteen millions of dollars over your time here. Do you think you can cut us a break and shave 3 or 4 mil or so off of your 23 mil salary this year? That way we can afford to bring in better players and we'll win more games. Keenan; not on your life - I'm offended. I had the best year of my career - I need that 3 or 4 mil . Team; uh . . . . have fun in Chicago . . . . . . . . . . .

And if you think Joey Bosa has earned his money, I have some land in Florida I'd like you to take a look at . . . . . . . . . . . . It's a really good investment . . . . . . . . .