Official 2025 Chargers Discussion | 2025 Roster Build | Training Camp

[Fouts2herbert]

Chark and Hurst were two of his big offensive weapons on the cheap plays that both failed miserably and really impacted the team. Fisk was not much of a factor, he was a body imo. I watched him many plays, he wasn’t a very good blocker for a guy that can’t run a pass route. Jmo, others can disagree.

His other big bet was to stand pat with his OG options and add Boze, that didn’t work but it was an understandable assessment that Boze from 2 yrs ago could return and of the two guys that played OT fairly well in the past, one of them would be able to play RG. Most of us thought it would work at least ok. It didn’t work - I think coaches need to look long and hard at how they installed and taught Gro’s system. He’s not just power gap. He’s not just counter/trap. He’s not never-zone. He combines all 3 blocking types in his rush plays and maybe they didn’t teach it well enough?

Then again, that doesn’t explain the IOL’s massive mental fails in basic pass pro - there’s no gap/counter/zone in pass pro and they constantly failed to pick up stunts or blitzes they should have - often converging 2 and 3 blockers on one defender while one or two other defenders ran untouched through the A gap at Herbie. There again - when it happens time after time, we have to ask WTF are the coaches doing? Why is the IOL not getting better at picking those up? Because they did not get better as the season went on, except in a couple isolated games.

Joe did much better work on the defensive side but we have to ask - is it Minter and his staff are just much better than Gro and his staff?

Anyhoo - 2024 is gone, we are on to 2025. I like Joe doesnt blindly stick to his guns, doesnt clutch on to failing players because they were “his”. this pre-draft and draft clearly showed he learned the biggest lessons of 2024. And He has some bullets left in his gun, i expect a few more good surprises before Sept too.

It was infuriating how inconsistent our O-line was, they'd appear to take a step forward and then go right back to the same old bullshit again...it never got fixed so that to me is a coaching issue, the mental stuff means you didn't prepare your guys the way that you should've, so yeah, I do believe Minter and his group are in a different tier compared to idiot fuck Roman and his crew, sorry, I'm not a Roman fan, he was far and away Jim's biggest fuckup when he filled out his staff...

[Bolt4Knob]

I don’t think there’s another vet OT on the market that’s better than Pipkin at swing. If he goes down, then it probably moves to Salyer.

I am not moving off of Pipkins at this time. Swing OT and even depth at both guard positions
That said, wouldn't mind if there is a veteran -- granted they might wait for OTAs and training camp to see what they truly have

And guys like Hernandez and Scherff might see the depth chart and pick another team or wait

[jaguarmanftype]

It was infuriating how inconsistent our O-line was, they'd appear to take a step forward and then go right back to the same old bullshit again...it never got fixed so that to me is a coaching issue, the mental stuff means you didn't prepare your guys the way that you should've, so yeah, I do believe Minter and his group are in a different tier compared to idiot fuck Roman and his crew, sorry, I'm not a Roman fan, he was far and away Jim's biggest fuckup when he filled out his staff...

It is a coaching issue -- Devlin's trade seems to be coaching tackles effectively, but the line overall isn't his strong suit judging by his work with the Texans under Bill OBrien.

[Chargers8491]

I literally just fucking typed that, or do you just quote posts without reading them? would not be surprised if Hortiz trades for another player for cheap compensation that's due to be cut by another team, but that's months away, was talking about the moves that he's likely to make in the next couple of weeks in post draft wave three free agency...

My bad I glanced over it.

[Fouts2herbert]

I don’t think there’s another vet OT on the market that’s better than Pipkin at swing. If he goes down, then it probably moves to Salyer.

Pipkins is on the roster for a reason, he still has value and this year he's luxury depth at OT, folks like to talk about the 6.2mil that he's scheduled to make this year as if it was some kind of crazy number that's hurting our cap, but trading or cutting him would not save all that much, maybe 2-3mil after you had to go get someone else to fill the swing tackle spot, frankly I'd rather keep Trey. I don't think they should put him inside again, that was fucking dumb as shit, he's not cut out for that, he's more of a technician finesse OT with real nice athleticism for a man his size....IMO he would be ideal in a zone run scheme where he can bring his athleticism to bear, put him on a team that runs zone blocking and Trey will thrive...power gap is not his thing

[jaguarmanftype]

I just don't like Pipkins at left tackle in any scheme, starter or backup. He'd get bullied and get ran through/by. As a backup or even a starting RT on a team without better options, he's capable.

[dmac_bolt]

It is a coaching issue -- Devlin's trade seems to be coaching tackles effectively, but the line overall isn't his strong suit judging by his work with the Texans under Bill OBrien.

Outside OT is so much different that IOL in pass pro. To a much greater degree, it’s pure 1x1 - you’re out there alone and you need to apply great technique and skill and ability to counter one of the very best and most gifted defenders on the other side. Mano y Mano. Maybe you get some chip help sometimes, sometimes not, you’re not really interplaying with or off of the OGs.

IOL pass pro is a completely different team sport, all 3 working in tandem and switching, handing off, picking up the surprises on the fly. That was such a huge weakness and it wasn’t physical - it was mental and that means preparation. play after play, game after game, both of our OTs held their islands like studs while those 3 inside guys were completely disjointed and confused. The good teams quickly learned this fatal flaw and just attacked between the B gaps relentlessly. With JK out, it was almost zero risk even in PA as Gus wasn’t going to bounce it out wide anyway, so the rush game got snuffed out at the same time. Houston beat the IOL to a pulp in the WC game, it was almost too easy for them.

I can see Jim is loyal to a fault, but we have a full FO of professionals also studying everything the team did and they talk to him too - I can’t believe the entire team admin is tied to fluffing Devlin’s balls too … a hard discussion should have been had. idunno, I do not know why Devlin is still here, this is a performance based league and his unit did not perform. Sorry, good luck in your next role somewhere, thanks for the hard work, yada yada …

Gro shouldn’t even have to get down into the details of running stunt and blitz variations at the IOL in practices and the OL film room - his OL coach should be identifying what they need to work on and then developing practices and lessons to fix it. If I waited for my CEO boss to find everything in my various functional groups and teams that could be improved and then he has to tell me how to improve it - he doesn’t need me on his staff.

[Bolt4Knob]

Pipkins is on the roster for a reason, he still has value and this year he's luxury depth at OT, folks like to talk about the 6.2mil that he's scheduled to make this year as if it was some kind of crazy number that's hurting our cap, but trading or cutting him would not save all that much, maybe 2-3mil after you had to go get someone else to fill the swing tackle spot, frankly I'd rather keep Trey. I don't think they should put him inside again, that was fucking dumb as shit, he's not cut out for that, he's more of a technician finesse OT with real nice athleticism for a man his size....IMO he would be ideal in a zone run scheme where he can bring his athleticism to bear, put him on a team that runs zone blocking and Trey will thrive...power gap is not his thing

Even if you save the $3m of cap space - who on the market is a better swing OT than Pipkins? Nobody
I agree about OG - hence why I like the idea of signing a true OG like Scherff or Hernandez
But no reason to get rid of Pipkins

[Fouts2herbert]

I have the chargers at about $15 of net cap space
take about about $15m for the draft class, in-season fund and practice squad -
So plenty of money to sign free agents that are currently available or if any become available.

With respect to Slater - I don't care if they get the extra cap space - I just want him signed long term
If the Chargers need extra cap space at this point - there is truly only one player I can think of -- Jalen Ramsey

I've read you type this before, why are you so worried about Slater, do you honestly believe that deal is in jeopardy of not getting done? I think this is just normal negotiations type stuff and I don't see any way the Slater doesn't get extended, I'd be shocked if it came down to them having to use the franchise tag on him next offseason...everything we hear is he's a fantastic kid, loves the organization, and the organization loves him back...I haven't worried about his one bit, is there something that you've heard that makes you think there's any chance he wouldn't be a Charger for years and years to come?

[dmac_bolt]

Pipkins is on the roster for a reason, he still has value and this year he's luxury depth at OT, folks like to talk about the 6.2mil that he's scheduled to make this year as if it was some kind of crazy number that's hurting our cap, but trading or cutting him would not save all that much, maybe 2-3mil after you had to go get someone else to fill the swing tackle spot, frankly I'd rather keep Trey. I don't think they should put him inside again, that was fucking dumb as shit, he's not cut out for that, he's more of a technician finesse OT with real nice athleticism for a man his size....IMO he would be ideal in a zone run scheme where he can bring his athleticism to bear, put him on a team that runs zone blocking and Trey will thrive...power gap is not his thing

They don’t have the depth behind Pipkins to get rid of him imo, I am 97% sure they won’t. They value depth. TPB talks about needing depth endlessly but too many here want to cut it once we have it. Pipkins is the only OL backup on the team that has played starting RT well in the NFL. Period. His cost is already long-baked into Joe’s master calculations.

The move to OG was one of those ideas that sounds great on paper - Marginal OTs are always better moved inside to OG, right? that flopped. It’s in hindsight the specific attributes and liabilities become obvious. I thought it was a good idea one year ago today, Jim thought it was a good idea.

[Fouts2herbert]

I am not moving off of Pipkins at this time. Swing OT and even depth at both guard positions
That said, wouldn't mind if there is a veteran -- granted they might wait for OTAs and training camp to see what they truly have

And guys like Hernandez and Scherff might see the depth chart and pick another team or wait

I've read you guys type on here that Scherff is looking like he's done, but what if he just needs a change of scenery? the guy is perfect for what the Chargers want and need right now, assuming the he's not retiring and that he still wants to play of course.

[Bolt4Knob]

I've read you type this before, why are you so worried about Slater, do you honestly believe that deal is in jeopardy of not getting done? I think this is just normal negotiations type stuff and I don't see any way the Slater doesn't get extended, I'd be shocked if it came down to them having to use the franchise tag on him next offseason...everything we hear is he's a fantastic kid, loves the organization, and the organization loves him back...I haven't worried about his one bit, is there something that you've heard that makes you think there's any chance he wouldn't be a Charger for years and years to come?

Yes because the deal isn't done yet

There are three good comps from his draft class for dollars; Darrisaw, Wirfs and Sewell. So the dollars are out there for the range
Maybe Slater is asking for more on an AAV basis than Wirfs - but with the cap going up - he should get more

And one reason I worry is who still sits in the owners box?