Official 2025 Chargers Discussion | 2025 Roster Build | Training Camp

[Fouts2herbert]

I overheard Matlock ask QJ why he gets 3 years to improve while fans want him 86’d after 1.

Not uncommon in the NFL when one guy got picked 21st overall in the draft and the other guy was a late 6th round pick...

There have been rumors of QJ getting traded, and or he may come in this year and blow the doors off the whole deal, he showed a LOT of improvement last year from his rookie season but the folks that already made up their minds about him don't want to recognize that, even his drop numbers were not bad but he already has the reputation so every drop he has will always get amplified vs a guy that doesn't have that reputation...earlier in the offseason everyone wanted Higgins and someone here pointed out that Higgins had more drops for the Bengals in 2024 than QJ had for us, LOL!

Also, he'll be in the same offense for a second year and his confidence improved a lot last season, there is still untapped potential but this is probably the year that will seal his long term fate as a Charger...if he shows more growth he could potentially become a longterm guy OR he could look much the same, have his option denied, and finish out his 4 years before moving on much like Palmer did...

I still like QJ, he's not a prima donna type, which is why I liked Palmer too BUT he's better at run blocking than Palmer was...

If Hortiz hits in the 2nd and 5th rounds any where near as good as he did in 2024, much of this won't even matter as the WR position might become a numbers game with QJ getting bypassed by the new guys...

[Fouts2herbert]

Agreed. Klotz and Fisk are UDFA TEs, we drafted Matlock and Harbaugh/ Roman liked the DL depth player well enough to ask him to play FB.
Fisk was elevated from the prac squad last year and made some plays at TE. Klotz is a UDFA TE that can only earn a job by playing lights out.
It's all about training camp and preseason performance to make the 53. Matlock enters the process as last year's starting FB and has that edge.
BUT he was not stellar and remains vulnerable if he doesn't show improvement..

Some of this Matlock vs Klotz deal will come down to STs. Can Klotz play STs? Matlock played defense, offense, and special teams last year. Scott also has the advantage that he already knows the offense and if he's improved his blocking it's going to be difficult for Klotz to compete with a guy that versatile that can help the team carry one less DT on active roster on game days.

So I think that if Klotz comes in and excels at STs then he he has a solid shot to unseat Matlock given that the depth on D-line has been improved from last year, they lost Ford, but they gained 3 new interior guys in Campbell, Jones, and Hand...with Tart, Egboigbe, and Otito returning that doesn't leave much room for Matlock.

Do they keep Matlock as the #6 D-tackle and cut Otito and Klotz? Or do they keep Tart, Campbell, Jones, Hand, Egboibe, and Otito AND Klotz and cut Matlock? keeping Matlock saves a roster spot to be used elsewhere...STs could weigh heavily into this, we'll see...

[dmac_bolt]

Agreed. Klotz and Fisk are UDFA TEs, we drafted Matlock and Harbaugh/ Roman liked the DL depth player well enough to ask him to play FB.
Fisk was elevated from the prac squad last year and made some plays at TE. Klotz is a UDFA TE that can only earn a job by playing lights out.
It's all about training camp and preseason performance to make the 53. Matlock enters the process as last year's starting FB and has that edge.
BUT he was not stellar and remains vulnerable if he doesn't show improvement..

I suspect Klotz will need to earn a spot, if he can, as FB (and then a regular on ST). Conklin and Gadsden were both added, Fisk only got elevated because that TE room was complete garbage and Hurst was a complete whiff. He was not impressive (to me, jmo - call me wrong, idunno) in anything he did on offense. Poor blocker, lumbering near-useless receiver.

Matlock was a last-minute scratch replacement for McFadden - he wasn’t their plan to start. If our TE/FB coach is being honest, sounds like his strategy this year does not include him again. Tea leaves are hard to read, who knows.

I cannot wait to see if Klotz can block pros like he buried college scrubs. If he can just consistently engage and bother them, he’s probably in. Matlock and Fisk both whiffed a lot, I am doubtful we see significant improvement but who knows. If not … oh well, another UDFA doesnt make a team, news at 11.

[Heatmiser]

I think plenty of fans don’t want to give QJ the time either!

[Riverwalk]

Agreed. Klotz and Fisk are UDFA TEs, we drafted Matlock and Harbaugh/ Roman liked the DL depth player well enough to ask him to play FB.
Fisk was elevated from the prac squad last year and made some plays at TE. Klotz is a UDFA TE that can only earn a job by playing lights out.
It's all about training camp and preseason performance to make the 53. Matlock enters the process as last year's starting FB and has that edge.
BUT he was not stellar and remains vulnerable if he doesn't show improvement..

I overheard Matlock ask QJ why he gets 3 years to improve while fans want him 86’d after 1.

[sonorajim]

1st, there is a big part of every player is projected, at least in part based on their past production.

Klotz did beat up a lot on some lesser players. But keep in mind, he made some big blocks against some really good teams.

And while the point about balance of forces is kinda true, lets remember that Klotz is one of the better other college TE/FB types. They were blocking against the same players, and Klotz outperformed them. But, equally, if he was a consistently devastating blocker, he probably would have been drafted.

It will be interesting to watch the TE/FB competition in TC this year. The balance between blocking, pass catching and "other" qualities will be interesting. But ultimately, I think it comes down to being able to make the block, not necessarily destroy the player being blocked. Yes, Fisk, Matlock and Klotz all miss blocks, but they all blow holes open. THey all have a knack for maintaining leverage while at speed-(ish) and can blast open holes for big runs. But they miss some too. Lead blocks are some of the most difficult in football.

Fisk is probably the odd man out. He just plays TE/FB and ST, and didn't really stand out on ST. Klotz is more of a standout on ST, and I think he can adjust to the ball in the air better than Matlock and Fisk, but none of them is going to be used much in the passing game, except as 4th/5th options to get something out of nothing. Matlock has some ability as a pass rusher, but is not very physical in the run game. It will just depend on how well they perform in TC and how much better they get.

Agreed. Klotz and Fisk are UDFA TEs, we drafted Matlock and Harbaugh/ Roman liked the DL depth player well enough to ask him to play FB.
Fisk was elevated from the prac squad last year and made some plays at TE. Klotz is a UDFA TE that can only earn a job by playing lights out.
It's all about training camp and preseason performance to make the 53. Matlock enters the process as last year's starting FB and has that edge.
BUT he was not stellar and remains vulnerable if he doesn't show improvement..

[Steve]

You are correct to extrapolate the future success of Klotz with the physics related to his past production vs. the projected physics of future production. This is proven by Newton's First Law of Motion:

"Newton's First Law of Motion states that an object at rest will remain at rest, and an object in motion will continue moving at a constant speed in a straight line unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.This principle is also known as the law of inertia."

So, with Klotz being the object in motion, the force he generated at the college level resulted in a relatively high level of effective blocks and/or pancakes due to the weaker unbalanced force (opposing player being blocked--short arrow) offering relatively weaker resistance...however, the same force (Klotz at same weight, acceleration and inertia) coming into contact with opposing forces with a higher amount of mass and force (heavier, stronger NFL defenders), especially if coupled with increased acceleration and velocity as a force multiplier (fast, strong NFL defenders), will most probably result in a reduced percentage of effective blocks and/or pancakes.

This could be summed up in the diagram below. In college, Klotz would be the dominant side of the unbalanced force (longer arrow), whereas in the pros, he is likely to meet a higher level of resistance, and possibly result in a balanced force, or even an unbalanced force in favor of the defender (a missed or ineffective block). Therefore, in order for Klotz to maximize his future effectiveness, he will likely need to spend a lot of time in the weight room with Ben Herbert to bulk up to increase his level of future force, and thus optimize his maintenance of being a dominant unbalanced force:

image.png

https://www.mathsisfun.com/physics/f...culations.html

1st, there is a big part of every player is projected, at least in part based on their past production.

Klotz did beat up a lot on some lesser players. But keep in mind, he made some big blocks against some really good teams.

And while the point about balance of forces is kinda true, lets remember that Klotz is one of the better other college TE/FB types. They were blocking against the same players, and Klotz outperformed them. But, equally, if he was a consistently devastating blocker, he probably would have been drafted.

It will be interesting to watch the TE/FB competition in TC this year. The balance between blocking, pass catching and "other" qualities will be interesting. But ultimately, I think it comes down to being able to make the block, not necessarily destroy the player being blocked. Yes, Fisk, Matlock and Klotz all miss blocks, but they all blow holes open. THey all have a knack for maintaining leverage while at speed-(ish) and can blast open holes for big runs. But they miss some too. Lead blocks are some of the most difficult in football.

Fisk is probably the odd man out. He just plays TE/FB and ST, and didn't really stand out on ST. Klotz is more of a standout on ST, and I think he can adjust to the ball in the air better than Matlock and Fisk, but none of them is going to be used much in the passing game, except as 4th/5th options to get something out of nothing. Matlock has some ability as a pass rusher, but is not very physical in the run game. It will just depend on how well they perform in TC and how much better they get.

[Fouts2herbert]

So we’re going to have two UDFAs (Sanders and Klotz) make the final 53 along with 9 draft picks? Hortiz is a genius if he obtained that much rookie talent in one year.

So much can happen before final cuts, it's fun to speculate now but looking back at last year there were 3 late additions to the 53 man roster in Tart, Molden, and Heinecke that nobody was talking about in June or even July of last offseason. Something like that could still happen this year. There has been smoke about potential trades that the Chargers might be making in the coming weeks. I'm not even thinking about the bottom of the roster right now, I'm still thinking 1 or maybe 2 starting positions might be upgraded before the season even starts. Also going off of what happened a year ago, all of our draft picks didn't make the 53 and none of the UDFAs made it either AND by the 4th week of the season almost all the UDFAs from the original group of 22 signed in the 2024 offseason were gone even from the practice squad except for Morris-Brash, the center that just got cut Bucky Williams, and Barnhart from Michigan...we lost Harper who got poached by the Raiders I think, but otherwise our 2024 UDFA class didn't yield all that much...Hortiz focused on adding veteran depth even when it came to the practice squad...

long gone are the days when we had to hope to hit on the undrafted class to fill out the roster. We might still get one here and there that stick around longterm but the team is not banking on Hail Marys in that area like the previous administration. I think a longer term developmental type player from UDRFA pool is probably a thing of the past, unless if someone survives on the practice squad long enough to establish themselves on the team. I just think it's a luxury that Hortiz didn't have when he took the job. Certainly he's approached the roster building with more urgency and in a methodical player by player way looking to see how each individual guy can bring something that the team is missing without regard to how old they are...mostly they've been inexpensive and have been scheme fits even when they didn't do well in their previous stop...BUT they are guys that have already been pros and have already seen what it takes to make it in the NFL, guys like Ford, Dye, Fulton, Perryman, etc...This year's class also features some guys that might have something to prove. the question is do they become the next DJ Chark or the next Poona Ford?

[Topcat]

Watching Matlock play last year, I came away with the epiphany that there have been a hell of a lot more FBs around 250lb than 300lb for a reason. They also tend to be shorter than 6'4". This is my biggest Q-mark on my Klutz-for-Klotz marketing campaign. the physics of leverage is found low(er) to the ground. its one thing to blast dumb-ass college defenders, most (all?) of those guys he was pancaking on Saturdays last year won't be playing on Sundays.

You are correct to extrapolate the future success of Klotz with the physics related to his past production vs. the projected physics of future production. This is proven by Newton's First Law of Motion:

"Newton's First Law of Motion states that an object at rest will remain at rest, and an object in motion will continue moving at a constant speed in a straight line unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.This principle is also known as the law of inertia."

So, with Klotz being the object in motion, the force he generated at the college level resulted in a relatively high level of effective blocks and/or pancakes due to the weaker unbalanced force (opposing player being blocked--short arrow) offering relatively weaker resistance...however, the same force (Klotz at same weight, acceleration and inertia) coming into contact with opposing forces with a higher amount of mass and force (heavier, stronger NFL defenders), especially if coupled with increased acceleration and velocity as a force multiplier (fast, strong NFL defenders), will most probably result in a reduced percentage of effective blocks and/or pancakes.

This could be summed up in the diagram below. In college, Klotz would be the dominant side of the unbalanced force (longer arrow), whereas in the pros, he is likely to meet a higher level of resistance, and possibly result in a balanced force, or even an unbalanced force in favor of the defender (a missed or ineffective block). Therefore, in order for Klotz to maximize his future effectiveness, he will likely need to spend a lot of time in the weight room with Ben Herbert to bulk up to increase his level of future force, and thus optimize his maintenance of being a dominant unbalanced force:

image.png

https://www.mathsisfun.com/physics/force-calculations.html

[powderblueboy]

Watching Matlock play last year, I came away with the epiphany that there have been a hell of a lot more FBs around 250lb than 300lb for a reason. They also tend to be shorter than 6'4". This is my biggest Q-mark on my Klutz-for-Klotz marketing campaign. the physics of leverage is found low(er) to the ground. its one thing to blast dumb-ass college defenders, most (all?) of those guys he was pancaking on Saturdays last year won't be playing on Sundays.

Matlock from now on needs to be strictly viewed as a full back .... not a two for one bargain deal.
And they've been getting precious little from him on special teams.
From that perspective, can't they do better? Just chalk him up as one more Telesco flop on the line of scrimmage.

[Formula 21]

So we’re going to have two UDFAs (Sanders and Klotz) make the final 53 along with 9 draft picks? Hortiz is a genius if he obtained that much rookie talent in one year.

[sonorajim]

I give JH1 credit in that he found uses for a MEH player like Matlock. You can't make wine from lemons.
I also think the Defense was better than it's parts. Individually they were not a great group. But they played better than that. Cudos to the coaches again.
With more talent it will be interesting to see the make up.

Everybody did their job but having major stars like DJ, Mack, Henley and Still helped. #1 in fewest points allowed was very good. Yards allowed running and passing were pretty average and will need to improve. It will help that we only have five games vs 2024's top 10 scoring offenses. #5 Wash, #7 Phi
#9 Min, 2x #10 Den.