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  • YAC
    Registered Charger Fan
    • Jun 2023
    • 1402
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    #30937
    Originally posted by CanadianBoltFan View Post
    I agree with the many that would have liked to see an aggressive Super Bowl mentality of covering the bases more. Rather than just counting on the tackles coming back, getting a decent center, rolling the dice at guard and depth and hoping it all works better this time...I would have liked to see more aggressive moves and more investestment to make sure we never see last year again
    I can argue both ways on this point. For this post, I'll argue against your notion, CB. Coming at ya, Canada!

    1. There is simply no insurance for never seeing last year again. No volume of bubble wrap is sufficient to protect. If, God forbid, Alt and Slater get hurt again...it's virtually impossible to stack a roster deep enough with players who can provide high quality replacement.

    2. Let's suppose we'd been more aggressive with the wallet and signed Vera-Tucker, Wyatt Teller or Isaac Seumalo. Or two of them! We'd feel better, right? Feel safer. But guess what? All three of those players represent even higher injury risks than the guys we did sign. We likely would have loved watching Vera-Tucker maul for a few weeks...and then bam, he's down again as his history suggests. Same with the other two.

    3. You gotta ride with 9 offensive linemen. 10 if you want to get extreme. Practice squad players can be poached so you can't stash away good players. Nine o-linemen translates to less than one backup per starter. It's just a bitter reality: Injuries can bite hard. We should all start praying now.

    4. If Slater gets hurt I'm sure BeachComber will be reminding us of his suggestion: "Shoulda moved him to guard". This, of course, ignoring the reality that guards get injured too. If, in fact, Slater is injury prone at LT...he'll be injury prone at guard too.

    5. Free agent players have warts, pimples, an asterisks galore. And they are absurdly priced, beyond reason. Hortiz said we're not swimming in the deep end of that pool. We are gonna keep our wits about us, while getting the comp pick pipeline flowing. (Once started it has it's own momentum)

    6. McDaniel values fit over raw generalized ability. I think he's earned the benefit of doubt to know better than we at TPB.

    Comment

    • electricgold
      Registered Charger Fan
      • Apr 2020
      • 3812
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      #30938
      Originally posted by YAC View Post

      I can argue both ways on this point. For this post, I'll argue against your notion, CB. Coming at ya, Canada!

      1. There is simply no insurance for never seeing last year again. No volume of bubble wrap is sufficient to protect. If, God forbid, Alt and Slater get hurt again...it's virtually impossible to stack a roster deep enough with players who can provide high quality replacement.

      2. Let's suppose we'd been more aggressive with the wallet and signed Vera-Tucker, Wyatt Teller or Isaac Seumalo. Or two of them! Guess what? All three of those players represent even higher injury risks than the guys we did sign. We likely would have loved watching Vera-Tucker maul for a few weeks...and then bam, he's down again as his history suggests. Same with the other two.

      3. You gotta ride with 9 offensive linemen. 10 if you want to get extreme. Practice squad players can be poached. Nine o-linemen translates to less than one backup per starter. It's just a bitter reality: Injuries can bite hard. We should all start praying now.

      4. If Slater gets hurt I'm sure BeachComber will be reminding us of his suggestion: "Shoulda moved him to guard". This, of course, ignoring the reality that guards get injured too. If, in fact, Slater is injury prone at LT...he'll be injury prone at guard too.

      5. McDaniel values fit over raw generalized ability. I think he's earned the benefit of doubt to know better than we at TPB.
      ...Or they could be waiting to see what olinemen are still available when they draft an Olineman. If all the better OG's are gone at 22 and they see an OT that they like better maybe Slater to OG could be a plan B choice. Until then everything could be on the table. Maybe Slater at OG could be a better option than any OG they draft and he becomes a swing OT? With Jim you never know what he's going to do. He's famous for trying players at different positions. I'm pretty sure he's at least thought about this.

      Comment

      • Bolt4Knob
        Registered Charger Fan
        • Dec 2019
        • 20037
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        #30939
        Originally posted by gzubeck View Post

        Wait until after the draft kind of thing. Let's see who we get in the draft and go from there. We couldn't compete with the Raiders for Linderbaum so nothing we could do there.
        The REALLY good players are gone - and he had the money

        I am not talking Linderbaum. I am talking an upgrade at LB like Chenal. Maybe not Devin Bush but an upgrade.
        I would have to take a look at the safeties -- sorry Unc was a great story -- but he isn't getting younger, another one year - why not a sign a player in his prime for three years
        Perryman and Jefferson at this point of their careers are not moving anything forward. Purely status quo at best.

        Comment

        • 21&500
          Bolt Spit-Baller
          • Sep 2018
          • 15213
          • A Whale's Vajayjay
          • CMB refugee
          • Send PM

          #30940
          I too believe there is a chance that Slater has a greater chance staying healthy at OG over OT.
          I've said it before.
          At OG, he would rely more on pure power and less on athleticism. *****la Tendons can shorten if they've already been damaged. This can lead to increased risk of injury. Imo, he's much more likely tearing it again by exceeding an athletic limitation over a strength limitation.
          He has oodles of strength and power which would translate beautifully to Guard.
          At Tackle,Tac's vulnerable to over extension.

          So I'll have a "told you so" too in my back pocket and I pray I never get to use it.
          "The best defense is more offense."
          --John Lawrence

          Comment

          • YAC
            Registered Charger Fan
            • Jun 2023
            • 1402
            • Send PM

            #30941
            I forgot a big one...

            6. Chargers have kept their powder dry.

            If the brain-trust wanted to go after a George Pickens, LAC is on a list of only two or three teams that could readily afford to do so. I don't think it could ever happen, but if Trent Williams was available...and they wanted to chase...they could do so.

            After the draft there will be some nice free agents--some players added to the pool. The Chargers could have their pick of the litter.

            Come the trade deadline next fall and some team wants to tank, dump a star? We are at the front of the line.

            Comment

            • CanadianBoltFan
              Registered Charger Fan
              • Jul 2022
              • 10939
              • White Rock, BC Canada
              • Send PM

              #30942
              Originally posted by YAC View Post

              I can argue both ways on this point. For this post, I'll argue against your notion, CB. Coming at ya, Canada!

              1. There is simply no insurance for never seeing last year again. No volume of bubble wrap is sufficient to protect. If, God forbid, Alt and Slater get hurt again...it's virtually impossible to stack a roster deep enough with players who can provide high quality replacement.

              2. Let's suppose we'd been more aggressive with the wallet and signed Vera-Tucker, Wyatt Teller or Isaac Seumalo. Or two of them! Guess what? All three of those players represent even higher injury risks than the guys we did sign. We likely would have loved watching Vera-Tucker maul for a few weeks...and then bam, he's down again as his history suggests. Same with the other two.

              3. You gotta ride with 9 offensive linemen. 10 if you want to get extreme. Practice squad players can be poached. Nine o-linemen translates to less than one backup per starter. It's just a bitter reality: Injuries can bite hard. We should all start praying now.

              4. If Slater gets hurt I'm sure BeachComber will be reminding us of his suggestion: "Shoulda moved him to guard". This, of course, ignoring the reality that guards get injured too. If, in fact, Slater is injury prone at LT...he'll be injury prone at guard too.

              5. Free agent players have warts, pimples, an asterisks galore. And they are absurdly priced, beyond reason. Hortiz said we're not swimming in that pool. We are gonna keep our wits about us, while getting the comp pick pipeline flowing. (Once started it has it's own momentum)

              6. McDaniel values fit over raw generalized ability. I think he's earned the benefit of doubt to know better than we at TPB.
              Well my friend YAC...

              All i really see here is a pretty passive approach, just like Joe....with hope attached to it...it might work out it might not.

              I will say this to a couple of your points

              1. Yes losing 2 tackles the caliber of Alt and Slater is hard to overcome...but given that we have experienced that and know that they are both coming off injuries, and neither , especially Slater, is a lock for 17 games...a quality 3rd tackle would be very prudent...i mean better than Pipkins who has been ok at times...but gets nicked alot himself and when he does his play quality drops significantly

              5. Actually free agent IOL were not absurdly priced this year beyond what the Raiders paid for Linderbaum and what Zion signed for. Paying 10-12 million for a starting guard does not break the break, especially for a team with 100 million in cap and only 5 draft picks. Some of the players available were not perfect, but they are better than what we have at starting guard right now.

              Comp picks are nice and they do help replenish the system with young talent but they should not be the only consideration. 4th, 5th, 6th round draft picks a year from now that might take another 2 years after that to develop do not help a team now that has Super Bowl aspirations this year but has some glaring weaknesses and only 5 draft picks to fix them. I like the plan overall but some years you have to show a little flexibility and use the assets available to you. This year that was cap space over a league low draft picks

              I just wanted to respond to you.

              My original point was that a more thorough approach to leave less risk to a Super Bowl run would have been preferable to me anyways.. O line play is by far the biggest reason this team has not been able to be competitive in playoff games when line of scrimmage play decides games. I think they have left considerable risk to that but lets see the draft and June cuts unfold (if there are any for o line)

              I am ready to go with the flow and see how the plan unfolds but so far they have not attacked their biggest weakness with a thoroughness unknown to mankind. A lot of hope that underperforming players get it together in powder blue.

              Comment

              • sonorajim
                Registered Charger Fan
                • Jan 2019
                • 9816
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                #30943
                Originally posted by electricgold View Post

                ...Or they could be waiting to see what olinemen are still available when they draft an Olineman. If all the better OG's are gone at 22 and they see an OT that they like better maybe Slater to OG could be a plan B choice. Until then everything could be on the table. Maybe Slater at OG could be a better option than any OG they draft and he becomes a swing OT? With Jim you never know what he's going to do. He's famous for trying players at different positions. I'm pretty sure he's at least thought about this.
                I strongly doubt that the Chargers brain trust want to move one of the NFL's best Left Tackles to OG, or that he wouldn't demand a trade over the insult rendered thereby. Just a Guy, maybe but not a top Pro Bowler. In the same vein though, drafting a good rookie OT and moving him to OG meets the same two goals: good OG and OT depth.

                Comment

                • CanadianBoltFan
                  Registered Charger Fan
                  • Jul 2022
                  • 10939
                  • White Rock, BC Canada
                  • Send PM

                  #30944
                  Originally posted by YAC View Post
                  I forgot a big one...

                  6. Chargers have kept their powder dry.

                  If the brain-trust wanted to go after a George Pickens, LAC is on a list of only two or three teams that could readily afford to do so. I don't think it could ever happen, but if Trent Williams was available...and they wanted to chase...they could do so.

                  After the draft there will be some nice free agents--some players added to the pool. The Chargers could have their pick of the litter.

                  Come the trade deadline next fall and some team wants to tank, dump a star? We are at the front of the line.
                  yes IF by chance someone good gets cut and is available the Chargers will have money...though they could add a Deebo or Zeitler after the draft

                  As for trades, the team is really void of draft picks to be a player in the trade market. In my opinion I don't think it would be very intelligent to sacrifice high picks in a killer 2027 draft when you had 100 million to work with to fill holes. If you are so worried about protecting a comp pick at the end of the 4th round in 2027, why would you sacrifice your top draft picks in 2027??

                  For me the sensible thing now comes down to seeing what the draft brings in the top 4 rounds and seeing what free agents are available after may 1. That is where Joe left things

                  Comment

                  • YAC
                    Registered Charger Fan
                    • Jun 2023
                    • 1402
                    • Send PM

                    #30945
                    Originally posted by CanadianBoltFan View Post
                    yes IF by chance someone good gets cut and is available the Chargers will have money...though they could add a Deebo or Zeitler after the draft

                    As for trades, the team is really void of draft picks to be a player in the trade market. In my opinion I don't think it would be very intelligent to sacrifice high picks in a killer 2027 draft when you had 100 million to work with to fill holes. If you are so worried about protecting a comp pick at the end of the 4th round in 2027, why would you sacrifice your top draft picks in 2027??

                    For me the sensible thing now comes down to seeing what the draft brings in the top 4 rounds and seeing what free agents are available after may 1. That is where Joe left things
                    I'm not talking about spending much draft capital. I'm talking about trading with a bad team needing to dump a really bad contract. We've seen it before: A decent or good player who is way over-paid.

                    Comment

                    • YAC
                      Registered Charger Fan
                      • Jun 2023
                      • 1402
                      • Send PM

                      #30946
                      Originally posted by 21&500 View Post
                      I too believe there is a chance that Slater has a greater chance staying healthy at OG over OT.
                      I've said it before.
                      At OG, he would rely more on pure power and less on athleticism. *****la Tendons can shorten if they've already been damaged. This can lead to increased risk of injury. Imo, he's much more likely tearing it again by exceeding an athletic limitation over a strength limitation.
                      He has oodles of strength and power which would translate beautifully to Guard.
                      At Tackle,Tac's vulnerable to over extension.

                      So I'll have a "told you so" too in my back pocket and I pray I never get to use it.
                      You make an intuitively sensible point about *****la Tendons and positional risk, but I'll trust the Chargers medical and conditioning staff to make that call.

                      Actually in the dreary scenario that Slater gets hurt again you will *not* have a "told you so" in your back pocket as I'm gonna pick that pocket with this cold fact: you'll never be able to prove he would have stayed healthy at guard.

                      Comment

                      • dmac_bolt
                        Stunt Sniffer
                        • May 2019
                        • 21032
                        • Los Barrios del San Marcos
                        • Send PM

                        #30947
                        I wanted to see Joe stretch more than he did. The majority (if not all) of TPB agrees. But I don’t get the zeal with which some insist Rashawn cannot play LT though. Nothing but conjecture and panic porn in my eyes. If you have an elite LT, you don’t shove him inside to guard for no reason. Coaches will figure out where he is at in is rehab and know what to do more than anyone here will.

                        I am finding no evidence that players are overly prone to re-tear their *****lar if they return. One player out of 24 in a study between 1994-2004 re-tore it. The same study found high draft choices (like Slater was) were most likely to return effectively. The study also found OL are much more likely to be able to return to prior performance levels vs positions to have reduced performance like WRs and CBs. They average about 45 games after return. OL players averaged longer.

                        Panic porn unless someone has some actual clinical data or evidence, real information about Slater - where the only reports are he’s well on track (i admit these are team or team-provided reports)? I’m open to reconsider but I’ve searched and I cannot find anything to support this proposal.

                        Chargers should get a starting OG in the draft. If this OG can also serve as a swing OT, I don’t oppose that.

                        Someone posted what if all the good OGs are gone first. I’m not holding my breath for the draft where great OTs are left on the board while OGs are all taken. Thats now how the NFL has ever worked. OTs are always taken first as I’ve observed. I don’t want a mediocre OT/OG vs a very good OG - I want a day 1 capable starting OG.
                        Justin Herbert 2026 MVP Watch

                        Comment

                        • Bolt4Knob
                          Registered Charger Fan
                          • Dec 2019
                          • 20037
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                          #30948
                          Originally posted by CanadianBoltFan View Post

                          yes IF by chance someone good gets cut and is available the Chargers will have money...though they could add a Deebo or Zeitler after the draft

                          As for trades, the team is really void of draft picks to be a player in the trade market. In my opinion I don't think it would be very intelligent to sacrifice high picks in a killer 2027 draft when you had 100 million to work with to fill holes. If you are so worried about protecting a comp pick at the end of the 4th round in 2027, why would you sacrifice your top draft picks in 2027??

                          For me the sensible thing now comes down to seeing what the draft brings in the top 4 rounds and seeing what free agents are available after may 1. That is where Joe left things
                          Waiting for post draft cuts
                          Maybe players will be available for trade but like you said, they are already short two picks this draft and one pick next draft for Penning (Deculus and Gilman offset in Round 7)

                          OR.... like you said, maybe just be more aggressive during free agency
                          And if he was so worried about comp picks - why did he lose a very good comp pick for Zion, a 4th rounder for either Cole Strange or Charlie Kolar. More so Strange.

                          His work in the draft will be key

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