Chargers at Raiders (Week 2) | Pre-game Discussion

[sonorajim]

JJ McCarthy won the game on a run. Herbert won on a run. Mahomes runs for critical first downs almost every game.

I believe GM’s place a higher value on “mobile” QB’s versus pure pocket passers than they did in the past and justifiably so considering how much harder they are to defend.

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes are the past three league MVP’s. All extremely mobile QB’s.

I don’t think there’s “bad passing” starting QB’s in the league so that’s a misnomer to begin with. But if a bottom tier passer can run it obviously improves his capability to win games.

We saw that with Trey Lance in preseason.

I wouldn't call Trey Lance a bottom tier passer based on his Chargers preseason. He did demonstrate the ability to run and pass. That's why we kept him.

[Chargers8491]

The idea Herbert and the Chargers are ignored, disrespected, and maligned by national media is way overdone on this forum, IMO.

Sure there’s the one or two off, Acho’s, but that’s not the majority opinions.

Case in point.

On Stephen’s A-List this morning on ESPN…..arguably one of the most popular and viewed ESPN shows he listed his top 5 NFL teams and the other 4 commentators mostly agreed with the ranking.

PHI
BUF
GB
BAL
LAC

Still feel disrespected? Well how do you think the Texans feel who absolutely kicked LAC’s asses 8 ways to sundays the last time we played?

Look, I’m not arguing with the Stephen’s take….I’m just saying the whining about Herbert and the Chargers getting no respect is out of touch with reality.

I really don't care about the respect/disrespect thing. It's just using the injury card when it suits you. Nobody said anything about Chargers WR's last year especially when they played KC and Ladd was out. It's just Herbert is not elite. They also never mention that Herbert's had multiple different HC's and even more different OC's.

Herbert has never been surrounded by consistency whether that is HC, OC, Oline, WRs, or RBs. We are seeing it now and Herbert is showing the rest of the league what we already know.

[21&500]

I think Harbaugh is going to want to run the Raiders in to the ground. They held up against the run against the Pats, but the Pats weakness is their Oline. The interior DL of the Raiders can be had and beaten up by this Chargers OLine. The Raiders secondary can also be had by this WR core. I think Fisk is active for this game and helps Pip with Crosby here and there.

Imho Ground and Pound is the default "game plan" unless other factors dictate otherwise.
kudos to someone here (sorry, forgot) for arguing that KCs strength was stopping the run and why Gro was ready to pass for 4 quarters.

[sonorajim]

Harbaugh says he’s gonna get Herbert into the Hall of Fame. Well Herbert is not going to get there handing off to the RB all game. So I’m hoping this shift to a downfield passing game is permanent.

Winning will help. It was never going to be hand to a RB all the time but we'll do what it takes. Neither run or pass is going away.

[dmac_bolt]

JJ McCarthy won the game on a run. Herbert won on a run. Mahomes runs for critical first downs almost every game.

I believe GM’s place a higher value on “mobile” QB’s versus pure pocket passers than they did in the past and justifiably so considering how much harder they are to defend.

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes are the past three league MVP’s. All extremely mobile QB’s.

I don’t think there’s “bad passing” starting QB’s in the league so that’s a misnomer to begin with. But if a bottom tier passer can run it obviously improves his capability to win games.

We saw that with Trey Lance in preseason.

Not really. McCarthy had 2 runs, only 1 on their last 3 TD drives. His last run was the big TD that made the difference but the larger overall difference was he made good passes in the 2nd half and Caleb started throwing angry sick ducks all over the field. MIN's 4th Q scoring drives:

TD #1. No QB runs. 2-3 passes completed for 30 yards & TD, 1 INC
TD #2. No QB runs. 1-1 pass complete for 27 yards & TD
TD #3. 1 QB run - 14 yds & TD. 3-3 passes for 30 yards to set it up.
TOTAL 4Q: 6-7 passing for 87 yds, 1 run for 14

Meanwhile, CHI 4Q possessions:
Drive #1: 1 run for 13 yd. 1-3 passing, incl a horrible Intentional Grounding. Missed FG (*drive started in Q3, ended in Q4)
Drive #2: Sack, Incomplete - punt
Drive #3: 1-3 passing for 12 yd - punt
Drive #4: 2-4 passing for 31 yd (another big completion replaced by MIN personal foul) and TD, 1 run for 13
Drive #5: last play- scramble toss drill fail per normal.

A QB still has to throw accurate passes to win in the NFL imo. Last night McCarthy threw much better in the 4th Q than Caleb and that was the biggest difference. McCarthy only ran once in Q4, and while it was the deciding TD, the other two TDs were by pass.

Herbert's final run sealed the win. without his passing, the Chargers aren't even in the game at all.

[FoutsFan]

JJ McCarthy won the game on a run. Herbert won on a run. Mahomes runs for critical first downs almost every game.

I believe GM’s place a higher value on “mobile” QB’s versus pure pocket passers than they did in the past and justifiably so considering how much harder they are to defend.

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Patrick Mahomes are the past three league MVP’s. All extremely mobile QB’s.

I don’t think there’s “bad passing” starting QB’s in the league so that’s a misnomer to begin with. But if a bottom tier passer can run it obviously improves his capability to win games.

We saw that with Trey Lance in preseason.

I didn’t say mobile QBs. I said running QBs. This system was created by ESPN a long time ago when there were lots of Bad QBS that could only run. Also there are lots of bad QBs in the league still. Don’t know why you can’t see it, it’s pretty obvious even to the casual football fan. Also JJ made some nice throws at the end of the game. They don’t win without the throws.

But you knew this already.

[sonorajim]

Imho Ground and Pound is the default "game plan" unless other factors dictate otherwise.
kudos to someone here (sorry, forgot) for arguing that KCs strength was stopping the run and why Gro was ready to pass for 4 quarters.

I pointed out KC's D strength. No genius, I just looked at their 2024 D stats.Passing against KC just made sense.
I think our offensive approach vs the Turds will be similar. @55% pass/ 45 run. The "Duhs LBs and secondary are nothing special. DL/edge is their strength.

[beachcomber]

looking over the snap counts, not sure why Keenan is WR3 ??

still don’t trust QJ over the course of the season and thru the playoffs ??

also afraid we might be putting too much on OH…. would still prefer to put more effort into getting him the ball in space.

also think it wise to let Haskins spell Hampton some until Najee is ready to shoulder his share of the load ??

[HerbieParadigm]

I get it, every week a new opponent w/different talent, tendencies, & matchups. Yes situational fooball. IF the Chargers are to get to and finally win a SP, THE situational football tenet is "Unleash Herbert". As in play like Josh Allen but better and leverage attacking being proactive. Minter has built the D in embrace of this. All that need happen is Herbert deciding to unleash himself. Week 1 is evidence he will do this. Everybody else exists to ebrace this tenet. I know Harbaugh understand this and GRO better damn well get in line.

As to this game, the greatest mismatch is Herbet's arm versus shitty Raiders pass D. Unlkike the Chiefs last week, I see Pete led Raiders and Slinging Geno putting up some points. So O will be more like 40 passes, 15-18 RB runs, & Herbert 5-7 intentional runs.

[richpjr]

looking over the snap counts, not sure why Keenan is WR3 ??

still don’t trust QJ over the course of the season and thru the playoffs ??

Herbert and the coaching staff trust him. The play Herbert scrambled to seal the win was designed to go to QJ but he had 2 defenders on him so Herbert took off.

[Chargers8491]

Herbert and the coaching staff trust him. The play Herbert scrambled to seal the win was designed to go to QJ but he had 2 defenders on him so Herbert took off.

I really think the QJ drops stuff needs to stop. Every WR in the NFL drops balls and that includes 1st rnd draft picks, it happens.

[richpjr]

I really think the QJ drops stuff needs to stop. Every WR in the NFL drops balls and that includes 1st rnd draft picks, it happens.

This is true. Having said that, QJ has had some brutal drops at really bad times that could have won us games. He has also gone into a funk after a drop where he completely disappears for the rest of the game. He looked good on Friday - hopefully he continues to improve as he is still under contract through next season (plus another if we exercise his 5th year option).