Welcome Coach Butch Barry - Fixing the Offensive Line

[dmac_bolt]

IF Joe can build a good OL using less capital, that increases allocations to other areas. I don't want everyone to get tooooo sold on the notion that McD's offense is so great and OL friendly that we don't need good OL players. IFFF such an advantage exists, I'd expect it to reside on the rush blocking side. Better is still better, and pass pro is largely unaffected by rush block schemes. Sooner or later there are game situations where teams know you need to pass and all of the scheming and bluffing is ignored and it's down to hat on hat, pad on pad unless you want to throw out large portions of your passing scheme options.

This year's SB teams were Top 10 OL, not top 5 or top 1, Top 10 is a great target imo.

[northerner]

OK but I struggle with the part where the Chargers don't have a coach where Devlin was listed and pictured. We do not have an OL coach as far as
the team is concerned. As yet. Asst OL Coach Nick Hardwick is pictured. No OL Coach.

No big deal I suppose but I'm not convinced until the Chargers say they hired an OL coach. We all know that they will at some point. The list of coaches is not complete without one.

they still have Rick Minter as defensive consultant (Jesse's dad), so they might not have caught up the website. who knows...

[Bolt4Knob]

IF Joe can build a good OL using less capital, that increases allocations to other areas. I don't want everyone to get tooooo sold on the notion that McD's offense is so great and OL friendly that we don't need good OL players. IFFF such an advantage exists, I'd expect it to reside on the rush blocking side. Better is still better, and pass pro is largely unaffected by rush block schemes. Sooner or later there are game situations where teams know you need to pass and all of the scheming and bluffing is ignored and it's down to hat on hat, pad on pad unless you want to throw out large portions of your passing scheme options.

This year's SB teams were Top 10 OL, not top 5 or top 1, Top 10 is a great target imo.

My goal for the Oline was Top 14 - as 14 teams make the playoffs - -but I like your target even better.

But I don't think Hortiz can try to be "creative" at all three IOL positions. He is going to have spend either CAP or very high DRAFT capital.
The Zion figures of 18-20m being speculated by the GAC podcasters or Money and Popper - maybe that is too high for Zion and you get Seumalo for one y ear for 12m - That is still a reasonable amount of cash. Or Wyatt Teller.
Right Guard - if you want to bring back Penning, Cleveland and a draft pick to fight it out - that could work

But if he tries to go cheap this year, not going to work

[dmac_bolt]

My goal for the Oline was Top 14 - as 14 teams make the playoffs - -but I like your target even better.

But I don't think Hortiz can try to be "creative" at all three IOL positions. He is going to have spend either CAP or very high DRAFT capital.
The Zion figures of 18-20m being speculated by the GAC podcasters or Money and Popper - maybe that is too high for Zion and you get Seumalo for one y ear for 12m - That is still a reasonable amount of cash. Or Wyatt Teller.
Right Guard - if you want to bring back Penning, Cleveland and a draft pick to fight it out - that could work

But if he tries to go cheap this year, not going to work

I'd split the diff and go Top 12 if it means a lockdown defense or a top-tearing elite weapon. your call is sound - blend some "proven" into the plan at cost but not go spend 50M on 3 pro bowlers. There is a middle ground somewhere.

My plan has Penning and Cleveland as backups, I've never seen them able to take a starting role to where we want it. I don't know what they know but they told me Pipkins would be a great RG and Becton would solve RG the next year so ... they gotta put some show-me into the sell this time.

[Bolt4Knob]

I'd split the diff and go Top 12 if it means a lockdown defense or a top-tearing elite weapon. your call is sound - blend some "proven" into the plan at cost but not go spend 50M on 3 pro bowlers. There is a middle ground somewhere.

My plan has Penning and Cleveland as backups, I've never seen them able to take a starting role to where we want it. I don't know what they know but they told me Pipkins would be a great RG and Becton would solve RG the next year so ... they gotta put some show-me into the sell this time.

Popper mentioned PIpkins back as a swing OT - I think they can do better. Pipkins has been with the team 7 years, made a career , good bad or indifferent, but time to make a change there

I would prefer different competition than Penning, Cleveland and a draft pick at RG - but I get it -- if you spend on Zion and Center - you have to go cheaper at RG.
Maybe Center is Luke Fortner if the tape don't lie could be an option at say 30/3 after one good season and the Saints have a decently paid OC on the roster
My guess the Saints won't pay Eric McCoy to be a back up - and except for the injury, I think he would be a quality upgrade that you could trade for

So there are options besides Linderbaum and McGovern - but whatever it takes at the combine - Hortiz needs to figure out C and OG between those days in Indy and free agency beginning

[CanadianBoltFan]

IF Joe can build a good OL using less capital, that increases allocations to other areas. I don't want everyone to get tooooo sold on the notion that McD's offense is so great and OL friendly that we don't need good OL players. IFFF such an advantage exists, I'd expect it to reside on the rush blocking side. Better is still better, and pass pro is largely unaffected by rush block schemes. Sooner or later there are game situations where teams know you need to pass and all of the scheming and bluffing is ignored and it's down to hat on hat, pad on pad unless you want to throw out large portions of your passing scheme options.

This year's SB teams were Top 10 OL, not top 5 or top 1, Top 10 is a great target imo.

Absolutely

Every coach will tell you they are only as good as their players. MM is a good player caller, he is not a miracle worker.

No complacency, no half measures should even be suggested on fixing this offensive line Enough is enough

[CanadianBoltFan]

Popper mentioned PIpkins back as a swing OT - I think they can do better. Pipkins has been with the team 7 years, made a career , good bad or indifferent, but time to make a change there

I would prefer different competition than Penning, Cleveland and a draft pick at RG - but I get it -- if you spend on Zion and Center - you have to go cheaper at RG.
Maybe Center is Luke Fortner if the tape don't lie could be an option at say 30/3 after one good season and the Saints have a decently paid OC on the roster
My guess the Saints won't pay Eric McCoy to be a back up - and except for the injury, I think he would be a quality upgrade that you could trade for

So there are options besides Linderbaum and McGovern - but whatever it takes at the combine - Hortiz needs to figure out C and OG between those days in Indy and free agency beginning

Penning s the one guy I dont mind keeping....at guard only. He is nasty and pretty athletic for his size. He could be ok as depth in new system. He just is no good at tackle

[Bolt4Knob]

Penning s the one guy I dont mind keeping....at guard only. He is nasty and pretty athletic for his size. He could be ok as depth in new system. He just is no good at tackle

Penning at OG - for sure. Don't give him the job - make him earn it with a draft pick - maybe at worst a 4th rounder type

[sonorajim]

they still have Rick Minter as defensive consultant (Jesse's dad), so they might not have caught up the website. who knows...

It's early. They changed several but as you say, who knows?

ps: Has Rick moved? Changed teams?

[CanadianBoltFan]

Penning at OG - for sure. Don't give him the job - make him earn it with a draft pick - maybe at worst a 4th rounder type

Agreed, you might have to pay big at center and the other guard spot...not to mention Oweh and others. A combo of Penning competing with a draft pick might be the reality cap wise

[sonorajim]

Agreed, you might have to pay big at center and the other guard spot...not to mention Oweh and others. A combo of Penning competing with a draft pick might be the reality cap wise

Could be. I'm thinking FA C and draft OG but it could go a lot of ways. Looking forward to Hortiz solution for OL issues.

[OG619FrightninLightnin]

IF Joe can build a good OL using less capital, that increases allocations to other areas. I don't want everyone to get tooooo sold on the notion that McD's offense is so great and OL friendly that we don't need good OL players. IFFF such an advantage exists, I'd expect it to reside on the rush blocking side. Better is still better, and pass pro is largely unaffected by rush block schemes. Sooner or later there are game situations where teams know you need to pass and all of the scheming and bluffing is ignored and it's down to hat on hat, pad on pad unless you want to throw out large portions of your passing scheme options.

This year's SB teams were Top 10 OL, not top 5 or top 1, Top 10 is a great target imo.

If they get creative with a restructure of Herbert and others they could have something like $142 in free space.

No.Fucking. Excuse.