Welcome OC Mike McDaniel

[dmac_bolt]

mistakes were made…. if McUltra handles personnel anything like his s******** of jackets…. he will overspend on unnecessary/excess talent…. let your GM have final say on personnel…. otherwise you are just asking for trouble.

I’ve never really heard credible reports on the “owner” of the MIA roster moves. Was it Mickey D that banged the table for Tyreek + Weddle + Achane etc or did he just say “oh, wow - you bought me a Pantera? Thanks Dad!”

and Tua preceded McDaniel.

As with all LAC, McD will be an important voice Joe listens to (among many voices) but Joe will make final decisions and Joe will own the roster results. Nobody promised McD roster control.

[Riverwalk]

I’ve never really heard credible reports on the “owner” of the MIA roster moves. Was it Mickey D that banged the table for Tyreek + Weddle + Achane etc or did he just say “oh, wow - you bought me a Pantera? Thanks Dad!”

and Tua preceded McDaniel.

As with all LAC, McD will be an important voice Joe listens to (among many voices) but Joe will make final decisions and Joe will own the roster results. Nobody promised McD roster control.

You and I don’t know who “owns” the roster results.

The authority of the GM versus coaches versus owner varies greatly from organization to organization. Jerry Jones is a prime example.

If you think the rookie GM of the Chargers had more say over the roster then Jim Harbaugh I think you’re terribly naive.

If you think Jim Harbaugh didn’t purposely call McDaniel the HC of the offense then you can’t read between the lines.

You claim to work at the managerial level so you obviously understand UNIVERSAL organizational ********.

There is no way on earth Hortiz came into this organization with his experience and throws his weight around telling Harbaugh and McDaniel, “I OWN THE ROSTER, SO YOU DON’T LIKE MY PLAYERS, GET ANOTHER GM!”

4 GM’s got fired and 10 HC’s.

Pretty obvious who is held more responsible for failures in the NFL.

[dmac_bolt]

You and I don’t know who “owns” the roster results.

The authority of the GM versus coaches versus owner varies greatly from organization to organization. Jerry Jones is a prime example.

If you think the rookie GM of the Chargers had more say over the roster then Jim Harbaugh I think you’re terribly naive.

If you think Jim Harbaugh didn’t purposely call McDaniel the HC of the offense then you can’t read between the lines.

You claim to work at the managerial level so you obviously understand UNIVERSAL organizational ********.

There is no way on earth Hortiz came into this organization with his experience and throws his weight around telling Harbaugh and McDaniel, “I OWN THE ROSTER, SO YOU DON’T LIKE MY PLAYERS, GET ANOTHER GM!”

4 GM’s got fired and 10 HC’s.

Pretty obvious who is held more responsible for failures in the NFL.

got it - our HC is a liar. Joe is Jim's fetch boy. You've said this many times. You even said Gro was responsible for offensive players. Why you segway'd from my honest question about McD vs their GM to your old theory about Jim and Joe is unclear but whatever. you've got your theory. you got nothing behind it, you ignore actual facts and evidence to retain it, and you cling to your theory with fierce determination. But you be you, I didn't tell you not to and I wasn't even talking to you.

But I "claim to work at a managerial level"? The answer is yes I do but bro - stop being a dick. I wasn't even talking about LAC and I wasnt talking to you. I asked a question about MIA because I don't know. McDaniel was a first time HC, just hired when Grier made the big trade for Tyreek and began to focus on drafting speed weapons. Grier had been Miami's GM since 2016 when McD arrived. He previously hired and fired Gase and Flores, then hired McDaniel. So McD marched in from his prior OC role and demanded that the established Grier retool the roster to his liking? He insisted they mortgage their future drafts for Hill and Grier just meekly said "well, ok - I guess you're in charge"? lol.

Did Gase and Flores have all the power and control in MIA before McD? lol ... its not a well-supported argument.

More HC's fired than GMs doesnt prove that the HC's were all in control and had the most power. It supports the opposite, and you can write these down as Rules #1 and #2 of organizational ********:

1. The guy with the most power, influence and control is (almost) never the first guy fired.
2. The guy with the most power hires a guy to be the first guy fired if things don't work out.

Problem with Grier, is he eventually ran out of other guys - Even CEOs can only pull that off a few times before the board notices that he can't seem to hire good (enough) #2's. He was the guy that went hard for Tua, and after last year the owner said "enough of this shit". But it took 3 HCs and 9 rosters to get there.

[northerner]

Riverwalk
dmac_bolt

gentlemen: we'll use 12 ounce gloves, 15 rounds, 3 knockdown rule in effect. Protect yourself at all times.

just kidding guys.

[Boltjolt]

You and I don’t know who “owns” the roster results.

The authority of the GM versus coaches versus owner varies greatly from organization to organization. Jerry Jones is a prime example.

If you think the rookie GM of the Chargers had more say over the roster then Jim Harbaugh I think you’re terribly naive.

If you think Jim Harbaugh didn’t purposely call McDaniel the HC of the offense then you can’t read between the lines.

You claim to work at the managerial level so you obviously understand UNIVERSAL organizational ********.

There is no way on earth Hortiz came into this organization with his experience and throws his weight around telling Harbaugh and McDaniel, “I OWN THE ROSTER, SO YOU DON’T LIKE MY PLAYERS, GET ANOTHER GM!”

4 GM’s got fired and 10 HC’s.

Pretty obvious who is held more responsible for failures in the NFL.

Thats your theory anyway. Doesnt make anyone elses theory worse than yours.

Truth is we do not know who does what but if Harbaugh says that Joe has final say, i tend to believe him but again as has been said before, they do have discussions about players and yes MM likely gives his opinion on what he likes as well. Doubt he has any say in what Free Agents/trades Joe brings in but there may be a discussion, but Jim has said Joe is responsible for those and has praised him for some of the guys he brings in.

Why do you not believe that? Joe may have been a rookie GM but worked in a quality front office for 24 years along side the GM. Harbaugh has been a coach in that time and alot of it in college. But however they work it, it has been working except for the OL. Maybe Roman had a thing for Bozeman, and Hortiz knew him too but Roman is now gone and so will Bozeman unless they keep him around for poor depth which i hope not.

[northerner]

hopefully the coach and GM work together. that is the optimal solution. the coaches should discuss their overall plan for the offense & defense with the GM, and then work with the GM to fill out the roster (wanting speed receivers, physical safeties, etc.).

[Riverwalk]

Thats your theory anyway. Doesnt make anyone elses theory worse than yours.

—Agreed! Dmac was just so emphatic about Hortiz owning all the roster calls, I offered the more realistic counter opinion. —

Doubt he has any say in what Free Agents/trades Joe brings in but there may be a discussion, but Jim has said Joe is responsible for those and has praised him for some of the guys he brings in.

— Are you serious? What organization says here’s your employees without any “say in” before they are hired? You might take over a management role where you didn’t have any say in who the existing staff is but it’s a dysfunctional disaster if they don’t have you review and approve every hire you personally have to manage from then on. Sure, Joe and the scouts gather lists for the coach to review but Harbaugh and McDaniel ultimately have the thumbs up or down gesture as certain as Emperor Commodus waved it at Maximus.

.

[Riverwalk]

hopefully the coach and GM work together. that is the optimal solution. the coaches should discuss their overall plan for the offense & defense with the GM, and then work with the GM to fill out the roster (wanting speed receivers, physical safeties, etc.).

Yes, it’s a collaboration. I’m not suggesting anything other than that.

But like any organization, the manager has to have the final say so because he has to manage them. Hortiz is just a glorified head of HR.

[sonorajim]

Yes, it’s a collaboration. I’m not suggesting anything other than that.

But like any organization, the manager has to have the final say so because he has to manage them. Hortiz is just a glorified head of HR.

Hortiz is in charger of free agency and the draft. Jim is in charge of his staff. I have no idea how the player discussion is handled internally. Joe has cap parameters that have to be met and HC, OC, DC all have their concerns
Joe signs the bottom line. FA hires, cuts and draft choices.

[Xenos]

Thats your theory anyway. Doesnt make anyone elses theory worse than yours.

Truth is we do not know who does what but if Harbaugh says that Joe has final say, i tend to believe him but again as has been said before, they do have discussions about players and yes MM likely gives his opinion on what he likes as well. Doubt he has any say in what Free Agents/trades Joe brings in but there may be a discussion, but Jim has said Joe is responsible for those and has praised him for some of the guys he brings in.

Why do you not believe that? Joe may have been a rookie GM but worked in a quality front office for 24 years along side the GM. Harbaugh has been a coach in that time and alot of it in college. But however they work it, it has been working except for the OL. Maybe Roman had a thing for Bozeman, and Hortiz knew him too but Roman is now gone and so will Bozeman unless they keep him around for poor depth which i hope not.

I think I’ll take Jim’s word at face value when he says Hortiz has final say during the offseason, but it’s switched during the regular season. Ideally, it’s a mutual relationship because the last thing you want is a toxic drama BTS like what happened with the Niners during Jim’s time there with Balkee. That’s why it was so important that the Spanos hired Jim first and then worked with him to find the right GM to pair with him.

[Xenos]

Yes, it’s a collaboration. I’m not suggesting anything other than that.

But like any organization, the manager has to have the final say so because he has to manage them. Hortiz is just a glorified head of HR.

Hortiz has final say during the offseason, while Jim has final say during the season. They said as much in their intro presser in 2024.

[CanadianBoltFan]

hopefully the coach and GM work together. that is the optimal solution. the coaches should discuss their overall plan for the offense & defense with the GM, and then work with the GM to fill out the roster (wanting speed receivers, physical safeties, etc.).

Harbaugh and Hortiz working together (well) seems pretty clear to me. Not sure why it has to be an ongoing, raging argument on here lol

Hortiz makes the roster decisions with help from Chad and input from Harbaugh and the coaches. Harbaugh speaks highly of Hortiz's scouting and personnel decisions, and is deferential in that department calling himself Robin to Hortiz's batman when it comes to player moves. I don't suggest Harbaugh doesnt have input, I think he has a lot, but I dont think he makes all player acquisition decisions and tells Hortiz what to do either.

Let's look at the trade for Oweh. I don't think Harbaugh said to Joe " i want Oweh on this team, go out and get him" I think it went something more like this....As a group, the football department....management and coaches discussed the need for pass rush help....Joe and Chad starting looking around a bit...then Joe comes back to Jim...."I think the Ravens might be willing to part with Oweh as he isnt having a great year there, but i was part of scouting and drafting him and I think he has the potential to fit into our system and help" I think the trade package would have been discussed as a group, including if the coaches were ok with parting with Gilman

They have set an organizational culture to establish what kind of players fit with the LA Chargers as well as fit with the systems they play. I am sure everyone is on the same page and works together to achieve that. That is where success starts.