#7 WR group in the NFL

[Panamamike]

I get the neck injury thing, but how many backup WR are active on any given week if they don't play ST? If he doesn't play ST, then he has to play enough minutes as the starter to justify activating someone else, which given how far behind he is, probably won't happen.

If you are a backup in the NFL, you play ST if you are active. If you don't play ST (as a backup) then you are a scratch just about every week. Hell, there are starters on every team that play on ST.

normally I would agree with you. But, not all situations are the same. How many rookies broke their neck in college? How far behind is he? He wasn't absent, he just wasn't able to participate. Walk through yes. Yes he definitely is a little behind, However camp hasn't opened. Let's see how far along he is in camp. I am sure we all realize there are starters playing ST etc. You do what is best for your investment. Personally, I do not feel that in this specific case that playing ST is worth the risk.

[Steve]

You can't learn to run pass patterns on the sideline. There are definitely things he will have been learning, but learning to really run routes you have to be on the field to do. He has never faced NFL caliber DB and he had a lot of learn about being a top caliber route runner, so he needs to get on the field.

If he had broken his neck in some freak hit, I would agree with you, but he had his neck slammed into a hydraulic raised/lowered goal post. It was an immoveable object. Since the only other injury he has ever had was in HS (missed 1 game because of a torn ligament, but returned the next week), I don't think there is any reason to think he can't come back and play like every other rookie can. Either that or our starting WR need to play ST, or we keep Williams inactive.

Backups pretty much have to all play ST, and that is that, at least until the NFL adjust the 45 man active roster.

[KAllen17]

I'm an ACC guy and have seen a lot of Williams, and he is an absolute stud. Clemson's success was due just as much to him as it was Watson imo. He will be an immediate impact player, guaranteed. Allen is extremely well rounded. Also look for Gates to still make an impact. The injury bug can't possibly hit as hard as it did last year so hopefully the offense can make some noise.

[Steve]

I'm not disagreeing with his impact in college, but the vast majority of college WR take time to adjust to playing pro ball. NFL CB's know a lot more about route combinations and reading routes. ACC and SEC DB's are NFL caliber athletes, but they are a long way from being NFL ready DB. It is much more a mental/technique game in the NFL, and those things take time to catch up. WR and DB, both have to adjust to the caliber of play.

Williams is not a great route runner, even by college standards. He is not horrible, but he uses his size and speed to a degree that will probably not translate to instant success. His saving grace is that he has a collection of his best routes at different levels, so college DB would back off of him. I don't think NFL CB is going to back down since they think their way through situations. I just think Williams is going to take time to adjust to the NFL, which is where the ST thing comes into play. I saw an interview Ron Rivera did about how quickly the Panthers can develop rookies, and he figures that it takes about 5000 practice reps to get a rookie ready to start (that means they need the average of 90-120 reps per practice to be even close). If they (Williams) miss just about any time in OTA's, and minicamps, they probably aren't going to get those reps to be ready.

As I said before the draft, Williams was more a best available pick than a need. I don't think we necessarily need him to play at all to be successful this season. With a WR corp of Allen, T. WIlliams, Benjamin, and Inman, we were pretty solid even before the draft. The real key on offense is going to be running the ball, and keep defenses from teeing off against Rivers. Last year defenses knew we couldn't consistently run the ball, and when we did we just kept putting Rivers in impossible situations behind a porous line. We had a terrible OL, and no amount of wishful thinking was going to have won the inside matchups last year. We had zero chance to pound the ball, which is why we got rid of Franklin and let Fluker go. Now, even with rookies and guys off the street, I can't imagine the running game will be any worse, and probably a lot better. The rest of the WR showed enough even when Allen was down, and he is almost impossible for defenses to cover if healthy. Add in the improvements that the rest have made, I think we are in good shape. If Williams can play some this year, it is a bonus.

AS far as being an impact player, I don't know what you mean by that. I tend to think role players can have a huge impact, and I could care less about who starts. I kinda don't think that is what you mean, but I may be wrong.

I don't think Williams is going to start the whole season, but when he starts playing down the stretch, he could score some TD, as well as be a factor in the screen game. Those definitely impact games, even if he doesn't get a ton of snaps. But a WR corp of Inman, Benjamin and T. WIlliams can be pretty good if we run the ball well and can go off of play action.

[Panamamike]

I'm not disagreeing with his impact in college, but the vast majority of college WR take time to adjust to playing pro ball. NFL CB's know a lot more about route combinations and reading routes. ACC and SEC DB's are NFL caliber athletes, but they are a long way from being NFL ready DB. It is much more a mental/technique game in the NFL, and those things take time to catch up. WR and DB, both have to adjust to the caliber of play.

Williams is not a great route runner, even by college standards. He is not horrible, but he uses his size and speed to a degree that will probably not translate to instant success. His saving grace is that he has a collection of his best routes at different levels, so college DB would back off of him. I don't think NFL CB is going to back down since they think their way through situations. I just think Williams is going to take time to adjust to the NFL, which is where the ST thing comes into play. I saw an interview Ron Rivera did about how quickly the Panthers can develop rookies, and he figures that it takes about 5000 practice reps to get a rookie ready to start (that means they need the average of 90-120 reps per practice to be even close). If they (Williams) miss just about any time in OTA's, and minicamps, they probably aren't going to get those reps to be ready.

As I said before the draft, Williams was more a best available pick than a need. I don't think we necessarily need him to play at all to be successful this season. With a WR corp of Allen, T. WIlliams, Benjamin, and Inman, we were pretty solid even before the draft. The real key on offense is going to be running the ball, and keep defenses from teeing off against Rivers. Last year defenses knew we couldn't consistently run the ball, and when we did we just kept putting Rivers in impossible situations behind a porous line. We had a terrible OL, and no amount of wishful thinking was going to have won the inside matchups last year. We had zero chance to pound the ball, which is why we got rid of Franklin and let Fluker go. Now, even with rookies and guys off the street, I can't imagine the running game will be any worse, and probably a lot better. The rest of the WR showed enough even when Allen was down, and he is almost impossible for defenses to cover if healthy. Add in the improvements that the rest have made, I think we are in good shape. If Williams can play some this year, it is a bonus.

AS far as being an impact player, I don't know what you mean by that. I tend to think role players can have a huge impact, and I could care less about who starts. I kinda don't think that is what you mean, but I may be wrong.

I don't think Williams is going to start the whole season, but when he starts playing down the stretch, he could score some TD, as well as be a factor in the screen game. Those definitely impact games, even if he doesn't get a ton of snaps. But a WR corp of Inman, Benjamin and T. WIlliams can be pretty good if we run the ball well and can go off of play action.

Bt the same token, you don't learn to run routes on ST either. He will have to work his ass off in practice and after practice once the disk issue settles down. By all accounts he is a hard worker.
When the final roster comes I will list who I would have on ST coverages. One guy out of a ST traditional role is not the end of the world for ST available or roster makeup. I don't mind him blocking on the outside etc on punt returns. If i was the coach he would not be on KO return or coverage duties.

[Steve]

If you look at other rosters and other seasons, backup WR tend to develop most rapidly when they play on ST. Most teams do not activate WR who are backups. That is just a fact. It is too hard on the remaining guys playing time that they will be dead tired. Malcolm Floyd is the most relevant example. He had his 200+ yard game vs cinci and still didn't get activated regularly for a couple of years. Why? Because he didn't play on ST, so he only got to play in games where he was starting. That only happened early in his career when someone else was hurt. Backup players in the NFL also don't get nearly as many practice reps as the starters do. Once TC ends (and even during TC), starters or guys who have regular spots as a 3rd WR get the majority of the reps during the season.

As far as what ST he plays on, it doesn't matter which ones so much. In today's NFL game, teams cannot afford to activate players who will not be on the field in some way. You can get your 30-70 snaps on O, D or ST, but there are always 22 players on the field, and there about 60-70 plays on O, on D, and 20-50 ST plays (10 plays to end the non-turnover possessions per team (20 total), 10 kickoffs (total) and about 10 punts). On top of it because of all the running on punts and kickoffs, ST play eliminates a lot of guys from some units. You actually have a very limited pool of players to select from.

And if guys like Inman and Benjamin are already playing on ST, and can be the 3rd WR, a team is hard pressed to keep a guy on the bench. Since the game is so situational it is just very, very difficult to activate say a 5th or 6th WR who cannot play ST, unless you skimp at another position, which is playing with fire.

I am not suggesting for a moment that Williams is not a hard worker. Just that a lot of the hard work players do is not created equal. Running sprints and conditioning is certainly hard work, but it is not going to make him a better route runner. Lifting weights is also necessary, but without the technique work on the field, against DB, reading coverages to get the sight adjustments down, Some really raw guys can improve their route running by just running the routes over and over against air, but Williams looks like he is past that. He knows (or quickly will) know where his cuts are to be made. Running pass patterns is much more about creating space. Anyone who is reasonably fast can run straight lines and most of them can catch passes. Being a good route runner is about reading the D, forcing the defender away from where you want to go, put your body in the way, and then getting there in rhythm with the QB.
I just don't think that hard work alone is going to cut it. I don't believe that Rivera's 5,000 reps is a hard and fast number by any stretch, but is probably a decent rule of thumb. Williams is only going to get reps vs a DB in so much of his practice time, which is limited by CBA. They do have to practice running, blocking, ST and the like too. There is only so much a team can accommodate 1 guy. He might still rocket up the depth chart, but it just seems unlikely, and more importantly unnecessary.

[Panamamike]

If you look at other rosters and other seasons, backup WR tend to develop most rapidly when they play on ST. Most teams do not activate WR who are backups. That is just a fact. It is too hard on the remaining guys playing time that they will be dead tired. Malcolm Floyd is the most relevant example. He had his 200+ yard game vs cinci and still didn't get activated regularly for a couple of years. Why? Because he didn't play on ST, so he only got to play in games where he was starting. That only happened early in his career when someone else was hurt. Backup players in the NFL also don't get nearly as many practice reps as the starters do. Once TC ends (and even during TC), starters or guys who have regular spots as a 3rd WR get the majority of the reps during the season.

As far as what ST he plays on, it doesn't matter which ones so much. In today's NFL game, teams cannot afford to activate players who will not be on the field in some way. You can get your 30-70 snaps on O, D or ST, but there are always 22 players on the field, and there about 60-70 plays on O, on D, and 20-50 ST plays (10 plays to end the non-turnover possessions per team (20 total), 10 kickoffs (total) and about 10 punts). On top of it because of all the running on punts and kickoffs, ST play eliminates a lot of guys from some units. You actually have a very limited pool of players to select from.

And if guys like Inman and Benjamin are already playing on ST, and can be the 3rd WR, a team is hard pressed to keep a guy on the bench. Since the game is so situational it is just very, very difficult to activate say a 5th or 6th WR who cannot play ST, unless you skimp at another position, which is playing with fire.

I am not suggesting for a moment that Williams is not a hard worker. Just that a lot of the hard work players do is not created equal. Running sprints and conditioning is certainly hard work, but it is not going to make him a better route runner. Lifting weights is also necessary, but without the technique work on the field, against DB, reading coverages to get the sight adjustments down, Some really raw guys can improve their route running by just running the routes over and over against air, but Williams looks like he is past that. He knows (or quickly will) know where his cuts are to be made. Running pass patterns is much more about creating space. Anyone who is reasonably fast can run straight lines and most of them can catch passes. Being a good route runner is about reading the D, forcing the defender away from where you want to go, put your body in the way, and then getting there in rhythm with the QB.
I just don't think that hard work alone is going to cut it. I don't believe that Rivera's 5,000 reps is a hard and fast number by any stretch, but is probably a decent rule of thumb. Williams is only going to get reps vs a DB in so much of his practice time, which is limited by CBA. They do have to practice running, blocking, ST and the like too. There is only so much a team can accommodate 1 guy. He might still rocket up the depth chart, but it just seems unlikely, and more importantly unnecessary.

I dont think anyone argued what a normal progression is for many young WRs, and how they earn their roster spot. However not all situations are equal. MALCOLM did not play ST after his neck surgery. Malcolm also was an undrafted FA coming out of college, so i am not willing to compare his rookie year with Williams. There are other cases of top 10 drafted WR that did not play ST.

Provided he is healthy for camp, i think his role in our Offense (especially in the red zone where we have struggled) will justify his game day dressing regardless of him playing on ST.

[Steve]

No one is saying Williams is going to play ST once he wins a starting job. Not many starting WR (and I include 3rd WR in this) play on ST, unless it is as a PR or KR. That is not something in Williams a skill set. Once Williams wins that starting job, he is done with playing ST, and I don't think there is any doubt about it. This is about how he gets on the field to win the job in the first place.

I just don't think Williams will necessarily going to be active in the beginning of the season. He just has missed too much time.

Most young receivers with solid vets in front of them, work their way into the starting lineup a bit at a time. Work them into the lineup as a part time guy, 10-20 plays to start with, and then expand the role as they show improvement. To get on the field for those 10-20 snaps Williams is going to have to do some work on ST or he will not be active on Sunday. The only other way that happens is if we carry extra players in the secondary, or ask our other WR to pick up the slack. And that means that some other position is going to have fewer players active, which is a risk.

The alternative is to hand him a starting job and let him learn on the fly. Not an impossible option, but Rivers has good chemistry with the other receivers, so that doesn't seem like a realistic option until Williams can show he can play. Even then, when young players get forced onto the field, it usually takes some time before Rivers really trusts them.

[Fleet]

Damn its good to see some regular old charger discussion again. They are talking about me being a sell out on other forums. lol. Thats how slow things are.

[SDFan]

Sell out? As opposed to being a forever hater like that is the only 2 options anyone has? Maybe they really meant Shill instead of Sell out

[blueman]

WTF?!?!

Dude, you're keeping the faith alive more than anybody, if they don't get that then eff them.

Rock on.