3 steps to success: News beginnings or Philip Rivers' swan song?

[Steve]

English is going to have to play a lot this season. You figure English and JJ start in the base 34, since Freeney struggles so much playing LB. Then when we go to the nickle, which probably happens even more this year, because of Freeney, then English is still the guy opposite him, since you kind of want someone who can rush the passer, and JJ is really too slow to be that effective rushing. JJ will get some reps there, but English is going to have to step up.

I expect Williams will get some too, but again, history shows that not many rookie DE are ready to come in and be that productive. That is especially true of guys moving from 43 DE to 34 OLB. Granted, if he gets his reps in the nickle (a good bet), it does shorten his learning curve some. The good thing is that since WIlliams was a good ST guy in college, he will probably play and be active for all the games, so if you want to give him a few plays here and there, you can.

[Beerman]

English is going to have to play a lot this season. You figure English and JJ start in the base 34, since Freeney struggles so much playing LB. Then when we go to the nickle, which probably happens even more this year, because of Freeney, then English is still the guy opposite him, since you kind of want someone who can rush the passer, and JJ is really too slow to be that effective rushing. JJ will get some reps there, but English is going to have to step up.

I expect Williams will get some too, but again, history shows that not many rookie DE are ready to come in and be that productive. That is especially true of guys moving from 43 DE to 34 OLB. Granted, if he gets his reps in the nickle (a good bet), it does shorten his learning curve some. The good thing is that since WIlliams was a good ST guy in college, he will probably play and be active for all the games, so if you want to give him a few plays here and there, you can.

That's exactly how I picture them using English this season. I do feel that Tourek Williams will have a role in the nickel as well. It's just easier to teach him 1 role and just let him rush the passer. I just hope they don't throw too much at him and let him focus on 1 thing. Don't expect that much out of him to be honest, just hoping he can play ST's and contribute 5-10 def snaps a game.

[Steve]

Nickle D is not just for obvious passing downs anymore. It is about matching up. So teams like NE and Denver that play a lot of 3 WR sets do run a lot vs teams nickle rush lines. That is part of why they want Teo to develop into an every down LB. So Williams needs to be able to play run techniques and know the assignments for those 1st and 10 situations where the other team trots their 3 WR set on the field to start a series.

But you are right. He probably won't get much production in terms of sacks, but after a few weeks, if he can get a good jump off the line and get upfield enough to make QB start shuffle up into the pocket, towards our DT (Reyes and Liuget) then he is good enough to get some snaps.

Like I said before, the key to any rookie getting some token snaps to show what he has ISN'T his performance in the base D, it is his ability to be active on game day, which is about playing good ST. He has to show something in TC on D, but he doesn't have to be a complete player. Any young player will get better with practice and some game experience, but you cannot get those reps unless you are active.

[Den60]

English is going to have to play a lot this season. You figure English and JJ start in the base 34, since Freeney struggles so much playing LB. Then when we go to the nickle, which probably happens even more this year, because of Freeney, then English is still the guy opposite him, since you kind of want someone who can rush the passer, and JJ is really too slow to be that effective rushing. JJ will get some reps there, but English is going to have to step up.

I expect Williams will get some too, but again, history shows that not many rookie DE are ready to come in and be that productive. That is especially true of guys moving from 43 DE to 34 OLB. Granted, if he gets his reps in the nickle (a good bet), it does shorten his learning curve some. The good thing is that since WIlliams was a good ST guy in college, he will probably play and be active for all the games, so if you want to give him a few plays here and there, you can.

English needed to prove himself last year. For one reason or another he didn't. Makes it hard for me to count on him this season.

[Steve]

Not wanting to count on him is one thing, not having the ability to do anything else is the bigger issue. If we had another candidate to play in the base D, then I might agree with you. But they don't. JJ is the only other true OLB we have, so he starts too. English starts opposite him. Freeney plays in the nickle, because we know he hates playing 34 OLB, and I can't see him signing with us for anything else. Besides, I don't think he is that good as a 34 OLB, so why force him into a round hole (Freeney being the square peg). WIlliams is a rookie at a position where not many players are productive and he is learning a new position to boot.

If you don't believe they will use the scheme I outline, which I don't think they have much choice about, then outline what you think they will do. I just don't see any other options. I agree, I am not thrilled with English since I felt like he should have done more last year, but he didn't and he is still there. I find it unlikely we will be able to find anyone else who is any better at this point.

[Den60]

Not wanting to count on him is one thing, not having the ability to do anything else is the bigger issue. If we had another candidate to play in the base D, then I might agree with you. But they don't. JJ is the only other true OLB we have, so he starts too. English starts opposite him. Freeney plays in the nickle, because we know he hates playing 34 OLB, and I can't see him signing with us for anything else. Besides, I don't think he is that good as a 34 OLB, so why force him into a round hole (Freeney being the square peg). WIlliams is a rookie at a position where not many players are productive and he is learning a new position to boot.

If you don't believe they will use the scheme I outline, which I don't think they have much choice about, then outline what you think they will do. I just don't see any other options. I agree, I am not thrilled with English since I felt like he should have done more last year, but he didn't and he is still there. I find it unlikely we will be able to find anyone else who is any better at this point.

I'm not the GM. If I had been I wouldn't have been satisfied coming out of the draft with only 3 OLBers on the roster. The fact that he quickly jumped on the Freeney bandwagon as soon as Ingram got hurt - paying him what no other team considered him to be worth - only makes my doubt about TT as a GM grow.

[sandiego17]

If you believe, as you have stated many times, players follow the money, isn't every FA signing "paying him what no other team considered him to be worth"? Did Denver pay Vasquez more than any team offered or did Vasquez take the Elway discount?

[Steve]

I'm not the GM. If I had been I wouldn't have been satisfied coming out of the draft with only 3 OLBers on the roster. The fact that he quickly jumped on the Freeney bandwagon as soon as Ingram got hurt - paying him what no other team considered him to be worth - only makes my doubt about TT as a GM grow.

I would have gone after Barnes and then still gone after another OLB type in the draft, so I don't have any reason to think Williams is a bad choice at this point. I don't think you can draft players and get them to be productive right off the bat, you have to take them, and develop them. So, the sooner we start doing that, the sooner we will finally get our outside rush.

As far as Freeney goes, I don't think he is a bad choice, just that we seem to have paid a lot for him. Barnes got 11.5 sacks two years ago, playing just on the pass rush line. I would expect that Freeney can do something similar.

Barnes would have been a cheaper alternative, even if he is not as good a player. This was not a good season to get a OLB type high in the draft, as IMHO, there were really no decent choices available this year.

The thing that the Freeney signing doesn't account for is the extra mentoring he provides. Barnes is not a complete pass rusher, and so he can hardly teach the finer points of DE/OLB play to younger players, especially stringing moves together. In the long run, Freeney might provide a lot of help in that area, but I don't know how you credit the guy for that.

[Beerman]

I would have gone after Barnes and then still gone after another OLB type in the draft, so I don't have any reason to think Williams is a bad choice at this point. I don't think you can draft players and get them to be productive right off the bat, you have to take them, and develop them. So, the sooner we start doing that, the sooner we will finally get our outside rush.

As far as Freeney goes, I don't think he is a bad choice, just that we seem to have paid a lot for him. Barnes got 11.5 sacks two years ago, playing just on the pass rush line. I would expect that Freeney can do something similar.

Barnes would have been a cheaper alternative, even if he is not as good a player. This was not a good season to get a OLB type high in the draft, as IMHO, there were really no decent choices available this year.

The thing that the Freeney signing doesn't account for is the extra mentoring he provides. Barnes is not a complete pass rusher, and so he can hardly teach the finer points of DE/OLB play to younger players, especially stringing moves together. In the long run, Freeney might provide a lot of help in that area, but I don't know how you credit the guy for that.

I see we are back to the Barnes topic. Still don't see how anyone would expect to see him resign with us to be the 4th string OLB vs. a chance to start with the Jets. I would of loved to see him come back, but I think it's naive to think if given a choice he would have come back.

[Den60]

If you believe, as you have stated many times, players follow the money, isn't every FA signing "paying him what no other team considered him to be worth"? Did Denver pay Vasquez more than any team offered or did Vasquez take the Elway discount?

I don't know if anyone offered him more than Denver, though I expect it is doubtful, just that Denver offered more than the Chargers. Personally, I would have much preferred spending that money (and it is only $3.2M this year) on Vasquez rather than spending it (plus some more) on Freeney. It would have been nice not to have created yet another hole along the o-line. Freeney, by the way, could have played for Denver for what they were offering Phillips but he went to where the money was because no one else in the league thought he was worth it.

[Den60]

I see we are back to the Barnes topic. Still don't see how anyone would expect to see him resign with us to be the 4th string OLB vs. a chance to start with the Jets. I would of loved to see him come back, but I think it's naive to think if given a choice he would have come back.

4th string? We don't have 4 OLBers on the roster for Christ's sake! He would have filled the same role here as he will in NY.

[Beerman]

4th string? We don't have 4 OLBers on the roster for Christ's sake! He would have filled the same role here as he will in NY.

How is this hard to grasp. He signed BEFORE Ingram got hurt. Ingram, JJ, English are the top 3. Barnes would of been 4th string. Get it? He and English pretty much split defensive snap scraps last season. Would of been the same without the injury.

He is currently starting in NY. That wasn't an option on this team at the time. You don't get to make an argument after the fact like you predicted Ingram would blow out his ACL.