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[Boltjolt]

Leaf had an attitude problem and a bad work ethic who thought he would thrive in the NFL with minimul effort. I'd say it's mostly all on him.

[Topcat]

put me in the column that thinks this org had a fair bit to do w/Leaf's downfall.

starting w/Kevin Gilbride who was no help, and then Jr. calling him "big baby" or something of the sort as perhaps he felt threatened by a new top dog @QB ??

and then the preseason game against KC in the rain.... his development was mishandled/just handled poorly, and....

granted he didn't come into the League w/a Weddle or Brees type mindset, nor w/their discipline, and.... not many do.

The Bolts didn't sit Leaf for a year to learn, but instead thrust him into the starting role, then pulled him. But then, when your only other alternative as starter is Craig Whelihan, can u really blame them? So, I suppose you could blame the Bolts there, but the alternatives were so limited, they probably felt it was a risk worth taking. Of course, Leaf didn't help himself by yelling and cussing at reporter Jay Posner, for alienating his teammates, and reportedly frequently playing golf instead of studying film. So, it was a combination of issues. Had the Bolts let him sit his entire first year, would that have magically turned him into a solid starter? Maybe, but not likely, given Leaf's immaturity, work habits and emotional issues. But I'm glad he has overcome his issues the past few years.

[JOJAX85]

put me in the column that thinks this org had a fair bit to do w/Leaf's downfall.

starting w/Kevin Gilbride who was no help, and then Jr. calling him "big baby" or something of the sort as perhaps he felt threatened by a new top dog @QB ??

and then the preseason game against KC in the rain.... his development was mishandled/just handled poorly, and....

granted he didn't come into the League w/a Weddle or Brees type mindset, nor w/their discipline, and.... not many do.

Junior called him a big baby, because he was in fact being a big baby. When he snapped on the reporter, Junior was the 1st one there to reel him in. I'd be willing to bet if you asked Ryan about it now, he'd agree that he was.

[21&500]

FEI I’m not being critical of Leaf for pissing away his opportunity to be a professional quarterback like he was picked and paid to be, that train is long gone.
my point is that I doubt the Manning family held the Leaf family’s opinion so high as to depend on their intel to decide whether or not to play for the Chargers.
that to me sounds like some scored talk
Archie didn’t need to do much private eye work to see the dysfunction between Marty and AJ... not to mention the Spanos themselves.
it behooves Leaf to exaggerate a call between his father and Archie as the reason why Eli refused
The Mannings likely depended on facts, not the complaints and accusations of talented but lazy manchild.
and the other thing I’m saying is that he’s been on this tour the past few years talking about ownership and taking responsibility for addition and mental health issues, but on the interview with Pat McAfee, it’s clear he still has underlying resentment, and however true that is, that’s the opposite of taking ownership and responsibility.
to go out of your way to write a narrative is vindictive imo, even if it’s valid—what’s the point?? Literally what is his point in saying he wasn’t supported by the organization? Ultimately I agree the point is to deflect blame from himself for his own short comings.

completely “hypothetical” situation but try this on for an analogy:
years ago I was a bad boyfriend, I’ll let you imagine what that looked like.
AND my girlfriend was a serial cheater
so after a long and grueling journey I finally own that I had issues with DV and alcohol and I completely own my mistakes and the impact on our relationship...

then, a few years later, we speculating about a guy and why he may not want to date a woman who is “a lot like my ex girlfriend”. The guy is burrow and the new girl is the Bengals. Mind you, we have no actual evidence that Burrow doesn’t want to be a Bengal, but we’re speculating, for entertainment purposes on a podcast.

then I have the audacity to a “true story” about another situation that MIGHT be relevant to our speculation.

a story that insinuates that a few years after my breakup, some other guy didn’t want to date this woman and he held me in such high regard (despite the mental health and addiction problems) that he reached out to ask about her problems with infidelity.

it’s apparent to this story validates Leaf’s experience and status, even in 2004, but is it really appropriate?
I say not.

if you want to make peace with something, don’t start digging up “facts” that indirectly support your position.

[Cdn Bolt]

Leaf IMO was just another victim in the Bobby Beatherd train wreck as a GM tenure. He was his own worst enemy but I recall we had nothing at WR to help him.

Over the years Beatherd traded away many of the next years #1s to take current year 2nd rnders. 2 of them were WRs Bryan Still and Mikael Ricks and both were avg at best.

[sonorajim]

Leaf IMO was just another victim in the Booby Beatherd train wreck as a GM tenure. He was his own worst enemy but I recall we had nothing at WR to help him.

Over the years Beatherd traded away many of the next years #1s to take current year 2nd rnders. 2 of them were WRs Bryan Still and Mikael Ricks and both were avg at best.

Win a couple Super Bowls and you start thinking you know what you're doing. Bobby did take us to our only SB appearance. It was his 4th.

[21&500]

Win a couple Super Bowls and you start thinking you know what you're doing. Bobby did take us to our only SB appearance. It was his 4th.

isnt that what everyobe seems to want?
a “proven” guy?
haha

[JOJAX85]

Leaf IMO was just another victim in the Booby Beatherd train wreck as a GM tenure. He was his own worst enemy but I recall we had nothing at WR to help him.

Over the years Beatherd traded away many of the next years #1s to take current year 2nd rnders. 2 of them were WRs Bryan Still and Mikael Ricks and both were avg at best.

At some point, Beathard became a victim of his own genius. Started trying to outsmart the game. They all can't be undiscovered diamonds in the rough.

[sonorajim]

At some point, Beathard became a victim of his own genius. Started trying to outsmart the game. They all can't be undiscovered diamonds in the rough.

He hit on a few. Jamal Williams, Natrone Means, traded picks. Jr Seau, Rodney Harrison straight up, among others.

[JOJAX85]

He hit on a few. Jamal Williams, Natrone Means, traded picks. Jr Seau, Rodney Harrison straight up, among others.

Agreed. But Bryan Still... He may should've been drug tested after that one.

[dmac_bolt]

Leaf doesnt say his flame out wasnt his fault in that article. He has been up front and accepting blame for his mistakes for a long time, anyone who’s kept up on him knows that. There’s just a lot of over-reading going on here. All the article says he said to Archie is there wasn’t a solid support structure for him.

what happened when he imploded doesn’t refute that opinion, does it? Was there a great support structure around him? Fuck no there was not. He flamed hard and the organization ran to the restroom to wash their association with the relationship off their dirty hands. Not them, noooo.

[21&500]

To be fair I’m also reacting to a video interview of Leaf talking with Pat McAfee I saw days before the article about the same thing, so I’m lumping them together and I can’t find the video right now.