The Defense

[sandiego17]

YPC is the easiest to look up, but it's the one that requires the most math. For median all you have to do is find the one in the middle, and for mode the one that occurs most often. But mean/average actually requires division. Maybe that's why Yuba thinks it's so important -- maybe he considers that complex math (calculus prowess aside).

I guess you're right, what I meant was it takes work. You have to list all the runs. Its so easy to find the total number of runs and total number of yards and divide. My criteria for a good run D is the YPC is lower than Yuba's 40 time, and it is! Yuba timed a 40, that alone is awesome.

[Panama]

You say that, but you have nothing of value to challenge what I have said.

We are 22nd in YOC against and we have allowed 4 yards or better on about 53 of 107 carries against us. In what fictional universe does that make us a good run defense?

Shit, I've addressed it in so many other posts already (as have Steve, KNSD, sandiego17, and others), do I really need to address it again? I know you thrive on regurgitating the same stuff over and over, but most of the rest of us grow tired of it.

Think of it this way -- a new tact, just to keep things fresh:

One of the things our offense gets praised on is sticking to the script. That is, they pick up enough with runs and short passes that most of their 3rd downs are 3rd-and-very-manageable. And they convert a lot of third downs and don't get stopped.

The defense is doing the defensive equivalent of that. For all your love of YPC, they are getting enough stops in the run game (precisely why mode is of far greater value than mean) that teams are forced into passing situations, and our defense gets the stop more often than not. It's not, as you like to claim, because our pass defense is so amazing. One does not exist in a vacuum. The pass and run defenses feed off each other and set each other up. Most importantly, we get stops.

Go back and look at my Post 150. Notice how many short drives the opposing offense has, especially when they run more than 40% of the time. If YPC were so important, we wouldn't be getting so many stops. Yet we're getting the stops when the other team is running. How do you explain that? And you can't come back and say they aren't committing to the run, or their run-pass split isn't 60/40. Nobody's run-pass split is 60/40, and the Chargers are stopping offenses when they are trying to establish running games. Your arguments don't hold water.

But you're just going to repeat the same drivel. Because you can't answer the question posed in the previous paragraph. Oh, I'm sure you can type words that are in response to the question, but you will find it is not possible to come up with a believable explanation as to why the Chargers defense is stopping teams consistently when they try to establish the run if YPC is such an important stat. The only conclusion you can reach is that there must be an explanation other than YPC. But if you don't want to drink the water, it doesn't matter how many different paths we try to lead you to it by.

[Yubaking]

Ok, for purposes of argument, let's assume you are right. Based upon how poor you believe our run defense is and how strong we have been vs the pass, how would you explain teams choosing that strategy? They didnt. The strategy they chose was dictated by the Chargers.

Bottom line is it's a team sport. And all three phases are interrelated. Our offense is controlling the clock. Our D is getting stops and getting off the field, giving the offense more opportunities. ST has been phenomenal on coverage. Scifers and Novak are very good.

Worry about the run D if you must ( and you must to make your NT/Jenkins obsessions). But the D is playing well. They are making stops. I would really only begin to worry too much about it if the O gets shut down. Is there some team out there that dominates TOP like us? And maybe by the time it becomes an issue we get 5 of the 20 injured guys back.

First, Jenkins is a Saint that is working his way back from an injury. He is not a Charger. He has nothing to do with our run defense issues.

Second, I do not believe that we have dictated what our opponents have done for the most part (but we have when we have had big leads late and have at times in certain down and distance situations). I do believe we have stopped their pass heavy approaches over 5 games. But I do not believe that any opponent has tried to go run heavy against us. The most glaring example of this was SEA. They had 10 of 13 runs for 4 yards or better with 9 going for 5 yards or better. While we made two spectacular run stops (-3 and -6), we did not stop them from running the ball. They stopped themselves from doing so by not calling those plays.

As I have said, I read seahawkblue posters' posts and they were darn near apoplectic about their failure to try to run the ball against us. They were one of the few teams that ran more than they passed last year. They ran all over us in the preseason (even though we were missing some players). They ran effectively when they ran against us in week 2. Yet, they left their own identity against us and ran the ball on only 13 plays--only about a third of their plays. We did not shut down their ground game at all. It was their choice and I do not think it was a very good one although I am delighted with the result.

Finally, I agree with you that it is a team sport. That's why I have said that we might just be the best team in football. We are very strong in most areas--great ball control offense, strong pass coverage, good pass rush, accurate FG kicker, good punter, good ST coverage teams. So the run defense is really my only remaining big concern left. And Novak's lack of a deep kickoff leg is a minor concern (as I am much happier when the other team has to take a knee in the end zone on kickoffs than I am when a fast opponent has the ball in his hands in the open field). We are definitely headed in the right direction.

[Beerman]

There's no point guys. He's a lost cause.

[Yubaking]

Shit, I've addressed it in so many other posts already (as have Steve, KNSD, sandiego17, and others), do I really need to address it again? I know you thrive on regurgitating the same stuff over and over, but most of the rest of us grow tired of it.

Think of it this way -- a new tact, just to keep things fresh:

One of the things our offense gets praised on is sticking to the script. That is, they pick up enough with runs and short passes that most of their 3rd downs are 3rd-and-very-manageable. And they convert a lot of third downs and don't get stopped.

The defense is doing the defensive equivalent of that. For all your love of YPC, they are getting enough stops in the run game (precisely why mode is of far greater value than mean) that teams are forced into passing situations, and our defense gets the stop more often than not. It's not, as you like to claim, because our pass defense is so amazing. One does not exist in a vacuum. The pass and run defenses feed off each other and set each other up. Most importantly, we get stops.

Go back and look at my Post 150. Notice how many short drives the opposing offense has, especially when they run more than 40% of the time. If YPC were so important, we wouldn't be getting so many stops. Yet we're getting the stops when the other team is running. How do you explain that? And you can't come back and say they aren't committing to the run, or their run-pass split isn't 60/40. Nobody's runn-pass split is 60/40, and the Chargers are stopping offenses when they are trying to establish running games. Your arguments don't hold water.

But you're just going to repeat the same drivel. Because you can't answer the question posed in the previous paragraph. Oh, I'm sure you can type words that are in response to the question, but you will find it is not possible to come up with a believable explanation as to why the Chargers defense is stopping teams consistently when they try to establish the run if YPC is such an important stat. The only conclusion you can reach is that there must be an explanation other than YPC. But if you don't want to drink the water, it doesn't matter how many different paths we try to lead you to it by.

We were over 60/40 run heavy in several games last year. The fact that it has been done suggests that it can be done. I have never denied that we would get some stops if the opponent went run heavy. We would.

As I have stated repeatedly, going run heavy has some value in that I think teams will have some success against us in doing it on a sustained basis. It certainly will not be less successful than the pass heavy approaches presently being attempted against us.

Even if it is no more successful offensively, it will tend to limit our opportunities offensively by limiting our offense's time of possession.

I have already stated what I think opponents should do and why. The fact that other teams have not had success at doing different things proves nothing about what would or would not happen if they tried to do what I am suggesting.

I do not think your post #150 says anything at all. None of our opponents have attempted what I have suggested they do even considering the pass heavy numbers that have come at the end of games because teams were trailing. Nobody was going to get close to 60/40. I could break it down much further, but it really is not worth the effort as it does not make enough of a case for a response even to be required.

[homeless simpson]

There's no point guys. He's a lost cause.

that was already obvious dating back to last season. not sure why you guys keep responding to him expecting to be different

[TTK]

earthflat.jpg

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

The response you quoted/discussed deals with the posts of two different posters.

I think I was actually pretty solid toward SC when he called me full of shit and it turned that it was his analysis that was mistaken and mine was not.

As for Panama, give me break, we trade barbs all the time.

I think your post can be read as suggesting that I was discussing the posts of a single poster which was not the case.

As then you condescend to me as if I cannot read. Solid, dude.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

First, Jenkins is a Saint that is working his way back from an injury. He is not a Charger. He has nothing to do with our run defense issues.

It was probably possible to stop here.

Second, I do not believe that we have dictated what our opponents have done for the most part

Now it's definitely time to stop reading.

There's no helping you dude.

[ArtistFormerlyKnownAsBKR]

There's no point guys. He's a lost cause.

I like how the definitions of "run heavy" and "pass heavy" are based on the final statistics and not about how teams enter the game strategically and adapt to changing circumstances throughout the contest. Stultifying.

[Panama]

First, Jenkins is a Saint that is working his way back from an injury. He is not a Charger. He has nothing to do with our run defense issues.

This is progress, at least.

Second, I do not believe that we have dictated what our opponents have done for the most part

This is what happens when you read the box scores instead of watching the games.

But I do not believe that any opponent has tried to go run heavy against us.

Post 150!

The most glaring example of this was SEA. They had 10 of 13 runs for 4 yards or better with 9 going for 5 yards or better. While we made two spectacular run stops (-3 and -6), we did not stop them from running the ball. They stopped themselves from doing so by not calling those plays.

You're missing context! What was the down and distance after each of those runs? What was the score? How much time was left in the half? You act as if the only consideration is YPC, which is truly missing the forest for the trees.

As I have said, I read seahawkblue posters' posts and they were darn near apoplectic about their failure to try to run the ball against us. They were one of the few teams that ran more than they passed last year. They ran all over us in the preseason (even though we were missing some players). They ran effectively when they ran against us in week 2. Yet, they left their own identity against us and ran the ball on only 13 plays--only about a third of their plays. We did not shut down their ground game at all. It was their choice and I do not think it was a very good one although I am delighted with the result.

What is your obsession with what fans think, as if fans know anything? Hell, read this board on any given day and you'd come away thinking Chargers fans dislike Te'o, want Pagano fired, think our defense sucks, and wish Telesco had drafted Jenkins over Allen!

And Novak's lack of a deep kickoff leg is a minor concern (as I am much happier when the other team has to take a knee in the end zone on kickoffs than I am when a fast opponent has the ball in his hands in the open field).

Oh for crying out loud... Did you watch the Jets game? If so, didn't you notice how almost all of Novak's kicks went 6-8 yards into the endzone? Unless you boot it through the back, which very few kickers do, the return is a possibility, and returners like to bring it out when they can, even if it's kicked 8 yards deep. The Jets don't really have anyone who is a legitimate KR threat, so the coaches let Novak kick into the endzone and when the Jets were stupid enough to bring it out Tutu and company made plays. The Seahawks have a guy named Harvin -- heard of him? -- who is a threat to take it all the way every time he touches the ball, so the coaches had Novak kicking it short, towards the sidelines, with a lot of hangtime, because short of kicking it past the back of the endzone this is the way to minimize returns. But you believe what you want to believe, as usual, and go ahead and bore us all with KR and KO stats.

[Sec-E4]

were never going to hear the end of the YPC & the 60/40 Hypothesis untill the season is over & then it's going to be another Hypothesis

@Yuba are you really a Charger fan ? Or are you a #'s fan ? Look back at previous SuperBowl teams & you will see it's not always about the #'s. The 2008 Cardinals were ranked the 28th worst & they almost won the big game.

just let it go....quit being that guy

I have a feelng Yuba isn't even a person, He's just a computer program