Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[richpjr]

I don't think Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time. I say that out loud sometimes, and all of his fans come out of nowhere to defend him.

IMO, it is between Brady and Montana.

[jamrock]

IMO, it is between Brady and Montana.

Yes I was always partial to Montana in that debate. May still be but memory fades a bit. Brady moved up a nocth when he won at Tampa Bay.

[jamrock]

The fact Herbert was the reason Harbaugh wanted to come here makes that a ridiculous statement.

I said this at the end of last season and it's become clear for all now, there was no way Harbaugh was staying in the college game. He had a target on his back and was getting Pete Carrol'ed. As for the Chargers, he also said he loved Keenan Allen. Spanos gave him everything he wanted. I bet the Falcons didn't. They didn't give it to Belichick. In the end, despite all the strum and drang the.Chargers were his best option and we should all be happy about that. But he's gonna do what he thinks is best to win and if that doesn't include a Herbert bounce back.....

[21&500]

Throwing out team achievements like superbowls and such, who is the greatest QB ever.
best player to play the QB position.

Gotta lean towards Peyton Manning.

[Heatmiser]

Brady probably is best of all time. But I agree with Duck, never saw a QB stand in the pocket and look around as long as he got to. And his OL almost never held or at least never got called for it. He was the beneficiary of some outstanding OL play during his career.

TG

[DerwinBosa]

IMO, it is between Brady and Montana.

I think Montana was better. He played in a much tougher era on quarterbacks. He could have won his fifth Super Bowl, and three in a row, in 1990, but in that season's NFC Championship Game he was nearly killed by Leonard Marshall on a hit that would have led Marshall to be banned by the NFL if he did that during Brady's era or now. If Montana doesn't get injured and have to miss the 1991 and 1992 seasons, who knows how many more Super Bowls he would have won? There's also no way Brady would have played over 20 years if he had gone up against the Bears, Giants, and Eagles defenses in the 1980s and 1990s under those rules.

With that said, I don't think Johnny Unitas should be out of the conversation, and I believe Patrick Mahomes is playing at a higher level than Brady and Montana were during the first six or seven years of their careers.

[dmac_bolt]

Can you handle the truth ?

QB#1: Herbert with limitations, as in an injury that will linger and linger all season long.

QB#2: Stick, who has familiarity with our offense.

Full stop.

Always hire talent over experience. Always.

[Boltjolt]

Like it's preseason?
Roman made it clear that we will execute our basic O plan. No Stick plays, all Herbert stuff. No scheming vs the opponent involved, with maybe a play or two exception.
I'll be most interested in straight up OL blocking. Impress me with that OL-centric stuff please.

The whole preseason is vanilla schemes. For years some have complained when we haven't looked great in preseason.

The Rams defense last year in preseason was awful while Dot was lighting them up but then when the season started and all year their defense was good.

It's not a time to care who wins. It's a time to see others play. It would be nice to see good OL play but if Roman is going to call plays he knows won't work,.....though to see how good they might be lol

[CanadianBoltFan]

I think Montana was better. He played in a much tougher era on quarterbacks. He could have won his fifth Super Bowl, and three in a row, in 1990, but in that season's NFC Championship Game he was nearly killed by Leonard Marshall on a hit that would have led Marshall to be banned by the NFL if he did that during Brady's era or now. If Montana doesn't get injured and have to miss the 1991 and 1992 seasons, who knows how many more Super Bowls he would have won? There's also no way Brady would have played over 20 years if he had gone up against the Bears, Giants, and Eagles defenses in the 1980s and 1990s under those rules.

With that said, I don't think Johnny Unitas should be out of the conversation, and I believe Patrick Mahomes is playing at a higher level than Brady and Montana were during the first six or seven years of their careers.

I have never liked Super Bowls being the decisive factor in QB greatness when it is the ultimate team sport with a 53 man roster.

In my decades of watching football, the best and most talented QB, playing the position like no other, doing things on the field that Brady and his 6 Super bowls couldnt dream of...is right ihere in our divsion, right here, right now. I have never seen a better QB.

[sonorajim]

I have never liked Super Bowls being the decisive factor in QB greatness when it is the ultimate team sport with a 53 man roster.

In my decades of watching football, the best and most talented QB, playing the position like no other, doing things on the field that Brady and his 6 Super bowls couldnt dream of...is right ihere in our divsion, right here, right now. I have never seen a better QB.

Herbert's arm talent is like no other. I hope the Harbaugh / Roman matchup is The One for Justin. Fingers crossed.

[DerwinBosa]

I have never liked Super Bowls being the decisive factor in QB greatness when it is the ultimate team sport with a 53 man roster.

In my decades of watching football, the best and most talented QB, playing the position like no other, doing things on the field that Brady and his 6 Super bowls couldnt dream of...is right ihere in our divsion, right here, right now. I have never seen a better QB.

For me, it's not the Super Bowls as much as the overall body of work. I would never put Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw in the conversation. There's no way I would take Aikman or Bradshaw over Dan Marino.

I remember watching Montana in the 1988 and 1989 playoffs. Against the Vikings twice (who had a dominant defense), Bears (a great defense), Bengals, Rams, and Broncos (gave up the least amount of points in 1989), Montana threw 19 touchdown passes and one interception in those six postseason games. The best game I ever saw Montana play, though, was against Buddy Ryan's Philadelphia Eagles in the beginning of the 1989 regular season. He was sacked eight times in that game, but came back with four touchdown passes in the fourth quarter to win it in a rally of perfection that was even more impressive than Brady's comeback from a 28-3 deficit against the Falcons in the Super Bowl years ago. Brady just flat-out sucked in that first half, which was a major factor in the Patriots falling behind. Montana was getting beaten up and slammed to Philadelphia's dangerously awful astro turf because his offensive line couldn't handle Reggie White, Jerome Brown, and the rest of that dominant defense. When comparing Montana and Brady, I tell Brady's fans that Montana just performed better. It's as simple as that.

But, yes, Patrick Mahomes is on a path to being the greatest ever. Hopefully we'll be a major factor in him not getting there.

[northerner]

I think Montana was better. He played in a much tougher era on quarterbacks. He could have won his fifth Super Bowl, and three in a row, in 1990, but in that season's NFC Championship Game he was nearly killed by Leonard Marshall on a hit that would have led Marshall to be banned by the NFL if he did that during Brady's era or now. If Montana doesn't get injured and have to miss the 1991 and 1992 seasons, who knows how many more Super Bowls he would have won? There's also no way Brady would have played over 20 years if he had gone up against the Bears, Giants, and Eagles defenses in the 1980s and 1990s under those rules.

With that said, I don't think Johnny Unitas should be out of the conversation, and I believe Patrick Mahomes is playing at a higher level than Brady and Montana were during the first six or seven years of their careers.

good points. it seemed like most of the time the patriots had a cake walk to a division title (the rest of the teams usually SUCKED), and then played the one-trick pony Ravens (all defense, no offense) or pretender Jaguars / others in the playoffs on their way to yet another super bowl. also, their super bowl wins vs. the Eagles (McNabb), Panthers, McVay Rams, Seattle (should have lost) were not that inspiring.

his greatest super bowl wins were probably his first one against the Kurt Warner Rams (which was a defensive masterpiece and a great final drive by Brady), and his win with Tampa Bay over the Chiefs (again, a great defensive performance helped his cause).

the Atlanta super bowl is just weird. they had 3 points in the 3rd quarter, then Atlanta fell apart. Brady gets credit for leading the comeback, but the opponent curled up in a ball.

i'm not trying to shit on Brady, but i was around to see Montana beat GREAT teams and get beat by GREAT teams (not the Eli Giants). also, as you mentioned above, Montana probably gets more super bowls if he doesn't get hurt and then traded / released / whatever.

as noted above and in another post, guys like Mahomes and Peyton Manning are individual pieces that would instantly make any team better. those two guys are a force of nature - Mahomes with his freak abilities and Manning as the ultimate field general.

it is weird, back in the days of Montana, there was not this instant need to crown someone the GOAT. in fact, the word "goat" was still used for a guy who lost the game back then. i actually hate GOAT discussions, I prefer just putting the guys in groups of the best.