Justin Herbert - Bolts Franchise QB Official Discussion

[Bolt4Knob]

Norv was our HC. No need to go there. I was not impressed.

Norv as an OC was different than Norv as HC

Norv knew the offense

[sonorajim]

Norv as an OC was different than Norv as HC

Norv knew the offense

I respect his work with the Cowgirls. He pissed me off as Chargers HC.

[dmac_bolt]

Balderdash! Nobody has ever questioned Justin’s work ethic, here or anywhere as far as I’ve ever seen.

You are smart CBF so I know I don’t have to explain what a strawman argument is to you and why that’s a blatant example of one.

If we want to be reasonable and actually discuss what Justin has been criticized for, Mike McDaniels explicitly discussed it in his presser.

Did not Mike say he was changing Justin’s footwork? Did not Mike mention timing Justin’s throws to discern which ones were more effective than others?

I was actually shocked at the candor and detail Mike shared about his work with Justin instead of normal coach speech where it’s all “feel-good” cliches that sound good but are actually hollow and boring,

We learned that Mike’s preseason with Justin isn’t just having him learn a new scheme. What he described was fundamentally changing Justin’s mechanics and execution. Mike saw what many of us have seen.

This one revealing presser from Mike McDaniels where he candidly revealed the changes he has asked Justin to make illustrated what I’ve been pointing out Justin needed to do, namely speed up his delivery.

I’ve been saying forever that Justin would need to process and execute faster to become an elite QB. That everything couldn’t be fixed by a better Oline and they shouldn’t be 100% scapegoated.

The best thing that ever happened to Justin is Mike McDaniels. Because he understands that and he’s asking Justin to change.

If that wasn’t blatantly clear to everyone that listened to Mike’s presser, perhaps listen to it again with an ooen mind.

Dave Portnoy did. For a wuss that can’t even hammer a nail into a board, it was rich too.

[Bolt-O]

Dave Portnoy did. For a wuss that can’t even hammer a nail into a board, it was rich too.

I moved a number of posts out of the football forums to OT that has nothing to do with the roster build. Not really caring too much about another team's fan throwing shade on the QB, and really doesn't add to the discussion.

[dmac_bolt]

I moved a number of posts out of the football forums to OT that has nothing to do with the roster build. Not really caring too much about another team's fan throwing shade on the QB, and really doesn't add to the discussion.

Thanks O - however you guys see fit is fine by me, I appreciate what you guys do here.

[dmac_bolt]

Norv as an OC was different than Norv as HC

Norv knew the offense

Norv made excellent use of excellent players. His early Chargers OC work demonstrated what he could do with 3+ HOF players and a solid OL. he had even more talent on the Dallas teams. Once talent disappeared, he lacked creativity to scheme around what he did have imo - though it’s hard for any OC if he doesn’t have enough talent. Players make plays.

[DerwinBosa]

I respect his work with the Cowgirls. He pissed me off as Chargers HC.

Same here. But I liked the work he did with Doug Flutie and a rookie LaDainian Tomlinson when he was Mike Riley's offensive coordinator in 2001. He also did a good job with Ricky Williams and the Dolphins in 2002 and 2003, which led to him getting the head coaching job with the Raiders.

It's too bad the timing didn't match up with Joe Gibbs and Philip Rivers or Justin Herbert. Gibbs had Mark Rypien playing like an MVP with Earnest Byner and the three receivers (Art Monk, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders) on the Redskins' way to the Super Bowl title in 1991. I would have loved to see what he could have done with Rivers, Tomlinson, and Gates, or Herbert, Hampton, and this current group of pass catchers.

With that said, I am excited about Mike McDaniel.

[21&500]

Speaking of Herbert’s work ethic.

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[Riverwalk]

I am happy for Herbert. He deserves a guy like McDaniel who takes a critical eye to Justin and finds areas to improve. I don't think Roman was capable of doing that.

Good point.

I knew there was a problem when Harbaugh would go on and on about Herbert. “Superhero”, “God-given”, “Guardian of Victory”..etc…

When you are exhibiting that much hero worship, it’s impossible to be critical and constructively modify faults. .

McD is the opposite. He treats Justin like a mortal with flaws, like he should be treated for his own benefit.

He dissected Justin’s plays and said, “Justin, you need to change your footwork, processing, and release”.

You know…this reminds me of the McD criticism of not being alpha enough. I thought it was silly since mild mannered Joe Gibbs is my favorite all time coach. So in hindsight, think of how McD has actually grabbed this offense by the (fill in the blanks) versus what you had from last years coaching staff.

[richpjr]

Good point.

I knew there was a problem when Harbaugh would go on and on about Herbert. “Superhero”, “God-given”, “Guardian of Victory”..etc…

When you are exhibiting that much hero worship, it’s impossible to be critical and constructively modify faults. .

McD is the opposite. He treats Justin like a mortal with flaws, like he should be treated for his own benefit.

He dissected Justin’s plays and said, “Justin, you need to change your footwork, processing, and release”.

You know…this reminds me of the McD criticism of not being alpha enough. I thought it was silly since mild mannered Joe Gibbs is my favorite all time coach. So in hindsight, think of how McD has actually grabbed this offense by the (fill in the blanks) versus what you had from last years coaching staff.

Not sure that was the point, but can't speak for anyone else. Harbaugh's public praise is not the same thing as Roman not being able to coach up Herbert as well as McD appears to be able to do. Harbaugh isn't going to dial back his public love for his players and especially Herbert.

[jamrock]

Good point.

I knew there was a problem when Harbaugh would go on and on about Herbert. “Superhero”, “God-given”, “Guardian of Victory”..etc…

When you are exhibiting that much hero worship, it’s impossible to be critical and constructively modify faults. .

McD is the opposite. He treats Justin like a mortal with flaws, like he should be treated for his own benefit.

He dissected Justin’s plays and said, “Justin, you need to change your footwork, processing, and release”.

You know…this reminds me of the McD criticism of not being alpha enough. I thought it was silly since mild mannered Joe Gibbs is my favorite all time coach. So in hindsight, think of how McD has actually grabbed this offense by the (fill in the blanks) versus what you had from last years coaching staff.

In all the time that he was with the Chargers I don't remember Roman ever saying anything about improving Herbert's play. It was only "imagine Justin Herbert with a run game". I'm looking forward to see how McDaniel designs the offense and gives Herbert more tools to work with

[dmac_bolt]

Not sure that was the point, but can't speak for anyone else. Harbaugh's public praise is not the same thing as Roman not being able to coach up Herbert as well as McD appears to be able to do. Harbaugh isn't going to dial back his public love for his players and especially Herbert.

I agree with you Rich. Justin didn’t just stagnate, he regressed under Gro. It had nothing to do with Jim giving him confidence and support. It had everything to do with Justin working hard to execute what Gro wanted - which is the opposite of a modern passing game. Gro and his O-Co and scheme were the problem in Justin literally being less effective at QB. Its what Gro wanted.

And we can’t evaluate anything without starting to embrace what it means to play QB behind the 32nd OL in the league. On one hand, everyone here will recognize that and then on their other hand at the same time they’ll put zero account of that into their assessment of Herbert. You can’t separate it. Our OL was THAT bad … historically bad. You don’t play elite QB in the NFL against elite defense when you have the worst OL in the league - not one QB anywhere ever has or ever will