Joshua Kelley, RB, UCLA - Discussion

[dmac_bolt]

I don’t see a lot of 2RB sets in the NFL these days. Maybe they are there and I was reaching for a nacho ... I don’t take a lot of notes during games.

[Steve]

Again, it may seem like it helps the O giving it more options, but it really doesn't help that much. The more offense you have in the game plan/playbook, you run the plays less efficiently. NFL defenses read the blocking and formation, so putting 2 backs in the backfield doesn't help that much. Multiple RB on the field gives the D an advantage if they have a defensive player who is free to run the ball unblocked.

We used 2 RB sets probably more often than most teams. Gordon lined up at RB and Ekeler at slot. I don't think we confused too many people.

[Formula 21]

I don’t see a lot of 2RB sets in the NFL these days. Maybe they are there and I was reaching for a nacho ... I don’t take a lot of notes during games.

Mmmmm. Nachos.

[Formula 21]

From what I’ve seen , old offensive schemes don't confuse new defensive schemes. Its time to look to the future, not the past.

[Steve]

Sometimes you can put window dressing on an old thing and make it work some.

The Wildcat was born from the ashes of the old single wing offense.
Zone reads and RPO from the old option/veer/wishbone.

But these are more complimentary things, not something you build an entire offense around.

The split backfield offense was a big thing back when teams wanted to have a lot of quick hitting plays, so defenses develop gap control principles, and stopped reading backfield actions. All the ball faking that made the T formation so great, suddenly just had the RB hitting the defender who was still in his gap.

Then split backfield teams started pulling and leading with their OL (GB sweep) but every RB in football needed to block. Guys like Paul Horning (who was GB kicker) was expected to be the lead blocker for Jim Taylor about half of the time. Offenses could attack inside or outside, left or right as long as everyone could block.

Then the Steelers stopped pulling and leading, but used a lot of short traps (and steroids) to run split backfield, and they had Rocky Bleier and Franco Harris, and you just didn't know who was going to run the ball (and they both blocked for each other).

Then the 49ers were the last team, with the little quick OL pulling and leading so they could attack the defense anywhere along the line and throwing the ball to the RB a lot more than anyone else was willing to do. Then when they got a lead, they would just run the clock down.

The real death of the split backs was when Gruden put I formation running into the West Coast offense, and then after that, everyone went to using the single (ace) back variations. Then you could use the best back as the primary runner, and he could run inside or outside to either side of the line, and you could reduce the defensive front 7 by splitting guys out as receivers, and you didn't have to block big physical guys anymore.

We use Ekeler as both a runner and a receiver out of the slot, and he makes a lot of plays. We did some short reverses and motioned him into the backfield. I don' think it confused anyone, but it let us keep him and Gordon both on the field, which was important since we didn't have a slot WR who was worth a shit last year. Ekeler could do both the RB thing and WR thing and still be on the field. I wouldn't necessarily change that this season, but I think the Chargers wouldn't have drafted Hill and Reed to play in the slot if they were going to use Ekeler.

I do like what Josh Kelley brings to the backfield, and in some ways, he may be a better compliment to Ekeler than Gordon. BUt the drafting of Hill and Reed make things harder to guess what will happen. I wouldn't say we were really deep at either RB or WR.

[Topcat]

Sometimes you can put window dressing on an old thing and make it work some.

The Wildcat was born from the ashes of the old single wing offense.
Zone reads and RPO from the old option/veer/wishbone.

But these are more complimentary things, not something you build an entire offense around.

The split backfield offense was a big thing back when teams wanted to have a lot of quick hitting plays, so defenses develop gap control principles, and stopped reading backfield actions. All the ball faking that made the T formation so great, suddenly just had the RB hitting the defender who was still in his gap.

Then split backfield teams started pulling and leading with their OL (GB sweep) but every RB in football needed to block. Guys like Paul Horning (who was GB kicker) was expected to be the lead blocker for Jim Taylor about half of the time. Offenses could attack inside or outside, left or right as long as everyone could block.

Then the Steelers stopped pulling and leading, but used a lot of short traps (and steroids) to run split backfield, and they had Rocky Bleier and Franco Harris, and you just didn't know who was going to run the ball (and they both blocked for each other).

Then the 49ers were the last team, with the little quick OL pulling and leading so they could attack the defense anywhere along the line and throwing the ball to the RB a lot more than anyone else was willing to do. Then when they got a lead, they would just run the clock down.

The real death of the split backs was when Gruden put I formation running into the West Coast offense, and then after that, everyone went to using the single (ace) back variations. Then you could use the best back as the primary runner, and he could run inside or outside to either side of the line, and you could reduce the defensive front 7 by splitting guys out as receivers, and you didn't have to block big physical guys anymore.

We use Ekeler as both a runner and a receiver out of the slot, and he makes a lot of plays. We did some short reverses and motioned him into the backfield. I don' think it confused anyone, but it let us keep him and Gordon both on the field, which was important since we didn't have a slot WR who was worth a shit last year. Ekeler could do both the RB thing and WR thing and still be on the field. I wouldn't necessarily change that this season, but I think the Chargers wouldn't have drafted Hill and Reed to play in the slot if they were going to use Ekeler.

I do like what Josh Kelley brings to the backfield, and in some ways, he may be a better compliment to Ekeler than Gordon. BUt the drafting of Hill and Reed make things harder to guess what will happen. I wouldn't say we were really deep at either RB or WR.

Every time we had Watt and Gordon in there, we were telegraphing, "we're going to run the rock." Maybe it might help if we ran more passing plays with two rb's in there, at least on occasion. That would be at least an attempt to fool someone sometimes...

[Heatmiser]

Good analysis, as always, Steve. I just hope we put the best players we have on the field. No need to get cute. Just put our best ones out there and run the plays we know we can run. That is something I miss about Marty.

At least at the goal line the defense has to honor the QB sneak now. Never understood why Rivers, at his size, could not execute that play. So sick of the stupid FB dives.

TG

[NoMoreChillies]

Sometimes you can put window dressing on an old thing and make it work some.

The Wildcat was born from the ashes of the old single wing offense.
Zone reads and RPO from the old option/veer/wishbone.

But these are more complimentary things, not something you build an entire offense around.

The split backfield offense was a big thing back when teams wanted to have a lot of quick hitting plays, so defenses develop gap control principles, and stopped reading backfield actions. All the ball faking that made the T formation so great, suddenly just had the RB hitting the defender who was still in his gap.

Then split backfield teams started pulling and leading with their OL (GB sweep) but every RB in football needed to block. Guys like Paul Horning (who was GB kicker) was expected to be the lead blocker for Jim Taylor about half of the time. Offenses could attack inside or outside, left or right as long as everyone could block.

Then the Steelers stopped pulling and leading, but used a lot of short traps (and steroids) to run split backfield, and they had Rocky Bleier and Franco Harris, and you just didn't know who was going to run the ball (and they both blocked for each other).

Then the 49ers were the last team, with the little quick OL pulling and leading so they could attack the defense anywhere along the line and throwing the ball to the RB a lot more than anyone else was willing to do. Then when they got a lead, they would just run the clock down.

The real death of the split backs was when Gruden put I formation running into the West Coast offense, and then after that, everyone went to using the single (ace) back variations. Then you could use the best back as the primary runner, and he could run inside or outside to either side of the line, and you could reduce the defensive front 7 by splitting guys out as receivers, and you didn't have to block big physical guys anymore.

We use Ekeler as both a runner and a receiver out of the slot, and he makes a lot of plays. We did some short reverses and motioned him into the backfield. I don' think it confused anyone, but it let us keep him and Gordon both on the field, which was important since we didn't have a slot WR who was worth a shit last year. Ekeler could do both the RB thing and WR thing and still be on the field. I wouldn't necessarily change that this season, but I think the Chargers wouldn't have drafted Hill and Reed to play in the slot if they were going to use Ekeler.

I do like what Josh Kelley brings to the backfield, and in some ways, he may be a better compliment to Ekeler than Gordon. BUt the drafting of Hill and Reed make things harder to guess what will happen. I wouldn't say we were really deep at either RB or WR.

love this stuff
thx mang

[jamrock]

Good analysis, as always, Steve. I just hope we put the best players we have on the field. No need to get cute. Just put our best ones out there and run the plays we know we can run. That is something I miss about Marty.

At least at the goal line the defense has to honor the QB sneak now. Never understood why Rivers, at his size, could not execute that play. So sick of the stupid FB dives.

TG

Football is mostly about execution. Deception is an occasional thing. Execution is an every play thing.

[wu-dai clan]

Football is mostly about execution. Deception is an occasional thing. Execution is an every play thing.

Blah. Blah. Blah.

Steichen is literally genius level.

:coffee:

[wu-dai clan]

Towards the end of the 2019 college season, and clearly at Senior Bowl Week,
Kelley showed burst and vision.

His health improved.
Joshua is ascending.
We have a nugget on our hands.
Competition for snaps.
Unmask and face reality, TPB.

:thumbsup:

[Velo]

Towards the end of the 2019 college season, and clearly at Senior Bowl Week,
Kelley showed burst and vision.

His health improved.
Joshua is ascending.
We have a nugget on our hands.
Competition for snaps.
Unmask and face reality, TPB.

:thumbsup:

I like our RB trio a lot. Though, if healthy, I think MGIII would be the best of the lot. In addition to a punishing runner, he had become an outstanding receiver. Young fool screwed himself holding out.