magic and my take on relijohn

[Fleet]

Props for not having to act like a cheeky **** BB.

[Savage Lizard]

Hes gone. If i warn a poster about attacking someone and the response is essentially "FUCK YOU" chances are it will end badly.


But the advice i would give the forum is....if you have to resort to acting like a butt-hurt little bitch and start calling members names you might want to just waive the white flag. Because your basically admitting defeat when it comes to any debate. If your confident in what your saying there's never any need to make it personal. You only look like a child. And in this case it got really immature.

This isnt just any forum community here. This is a group of at least 200 of us that have been together for almost 10 years. Weve been through a lot together. And most have a great amount respect for one another. Some have lost family members...some have lost jobs...some have had serious health problems and have almost died etc.

Ill be damned if i let some immature outsider come in here and start attacking a member because they believe in a creator. Who the fuck cares what a person believes. But if you have to debate it it can be done without losing it. Like most of those in this thread have done.

For what it's worth, though I agree with some of the things Pumpkinhead said, and disagree with the statements that BB made linking my thoughts to those of Riley Cooper, I did not resort to any name calling. BB decided I had because I equated certain things to certain other things, but I disagree. As stated previously, I am fine with moving on as people are entrenched in their beliefs (whatever they are) and there's no point arguing about them, nobody is going to change their mind.

[Fleet]

For what it's worth, though I agree with some of the things Pumpkinhead said, and disagree with the statements that BB made linking my thoughts to those of Riley Cooper, I did not resort to any name calling. BB decided I had because I equated certain things to certain other things, but I disagree. As stated previously, I am fine with moving on as people are entrenched in their beliefs (whatever they are) and there's no point arguing about them, nobody is going to change their mind.

I didnt see any attack by you. So all in this thread have been pretty respectable. I think believers get a little defensive about the comparison of God to the Bunny Rabbit and Santa Clause because it suggests there is no decision made to follow God through any sort of study or research. When i started to believe it was after my brother died. And then was revived. Only to ask for a pastor when he was revived. He was an Atheist and died an Atheist. When he asked for a Pastor after he died we sort of felt like maybe something happened. He died again shortly after he turned his life over to God. That made me wonder what he saw. Last i checked there wasnt any money put into researching Santa Clause and other man made entities. But theres been billions spent on the research of a Creator. As well as Billions on Evolution. So at the end of the day theres plenty of research on both sides of the coin that one can base his decision on. Thats what i did. I started reading a lot of Dr Hugh Ross' research. A Rocket Scientists and evolutionist who set out to study the Bible so he could prove it false. When he was done with his own research he turned his life over to a creator. I made my decision on research and my own personal experience with my brother. So when someone comes out and tells me i believe in a lie it degrades my brother and his death. It bothers me on a personal level. In fact i think the deabte of religion is something i wont allow here anymore. Because its such a person thing anyways. Nobody should give a shit what someone else chooses to believe. I love God. When someone compares him to something else its wrong. Its disrespectful. We call him Father. So you compare our father to things. I think its wrong. I dont compare the things or people members of this forum love to anything. Its there own personal life. I respect them for the love.

[RobH]

I didnt see any attack by you. So all in this thread have been pretty respectable. I think believers get a little defensive about the comparison of God to the Bunny Rabbit and Santa Clause because it suggests there is no decision made to follow God through any sort of study or research. When i started to believe it was after my brother died. And then was revived. Only to ask for a pastor when he was revived. He was an Atheist and died an Atheist. When he asked for a Pastor after he died we sort of felt like maybe something happened. He died again shortly after he turned his life over to God. That made me wonder what he saw. Last i checked there wasnt any money put into researching Santa Clause and other man made entities. But theres been billions spent on the research of a Creator. As well as Billions on Evolution. So at the end of the day theres plenty of research on both sides of the coin that one can base his decision on. Thats what i did. I started reading a lot of Dr Hugh Ross' research. A Rocket Scientists and evolutionist who set out to study the Bible so he could prove it false. When he was done with his own research he turned his life over to a creator. I made my decision on research and my own personal experience with my brother. So when someone comes out and tells me i believe in a lie it degrades my brother and his death. It bothers me on a personal level. In fact i think the deabte of religion is something i wont allow here anymore. Because its such a person thing anyways. Nobody should give a shit what someone else chooses to believe. I love God. When someone compares him to something else its wrong. Its disrespectful. We call him Father. So you compare our father to things. I think its wrong. I dont compare the things or people members of this forum love to anything. Its there own personal life. I respect them for the love.

I respectfully disagree with disallowing the discussion of religion in this off-topic section. Except for the one guy, the discussion here was very respectful and quite illuminating. I don't have a particular position in this topic, and I think that as long as one's beliefs don't infringe one's civil liberties, then people should be able to believe as they see fit.

If someone becomes abusive in the discussion, then the person could be suspended from the forum for a week, and if he persists, then a permanent solution is called for, but to limit what looks to be reasoned discussion in the non-football forum and deny the right to debate for all participants would require a fair amount of forethought, IMO.

Cheers,

[Savage Lizard]

I hear you Fleet, and I'm cool with all of that.

BUT, my experience is a lot different. As people may have seen in another thread I posted recently, my mom died a terribly violent death at a young age. At her service the pastor/priest/whatever spoke of "calling her home" and "God's plan" and other shit that I guess was supposed to make me feel better. But all it did was piss me off. Why does "god's plan" have to include such brutality? Why couldn't he just call her home some other way? Meanwhile, the guy who did all of it has conveniently found god now, and has been saved. So according to most of what I've ever heard about it, he gets to go to heaven because he has been saved. Meanwhile, I have lived a good life and never done anything like that, while doing a lot of good for others. But me? I'm getting cast into the fiery lakes of hell because I didn't say the secret password. That is really the best system an all powerful being could come up with?

Then you have people who like to ascribe positive outcomes to god, and conveniently look the other way when something bad happens. God fixed my brother in law's back a few years back (according to him) but lets kids die of cancer all the time. Someone gets in a terrible accident and almost dies, but if they survive someone will say "god was looking out for him." WHAT? If god was looking out for him, why would he let the terrible accident happen in the first place? Oh yeah "god works in mysterious ways."

And then we have prayer. If god is all powerful and all knowing, and his plan involves killing people with cancer, who are humans to try to talk him out of it with prayers? Seems kind of counter intuitive to surrendering to a higher power. But of course if someone gets better it's because of prayers and if they die it's god's will.

I understand people take comfort in this stuff, but it all just sounds like bullshit to me.

[Fleet]

I respectfully disagree with disallowing the discussion of religion in this off-topic section. Except for the one guy, the discussion here was very respectful and quite illuminating. I don't have a particular position in this topic, and I think that as long as one's beliefs don't infringe one's civil liberties, then people should be able to believe as they see fit.

If someone becomes abusive in the discussion, then the person could be suspended from the forum for a week, and if he persists, then a permanent solution is called for, but to limit what looks to be reasoned discussion in the non-football forum and deny the right to debate for all participants would require a fair amount of forethought, IMO.

Cheers,

Well you have a point Rob...but i personally wont have any part of a religion debate. But if the forum wants to discuss it i guess its up to you all. I would hope if it gets bad that you all can moderate it and let me know if it needs my attention.

[Fleet]

I hear you Fleet, and I'm cool with all of that.

BUT, my experience is a lot different. As people may have seen in another thread I posted recently, my mom died a terribly violent death at a young age. At her service the pastor/priest/whatever spoke of "calling her home" and "God's plan" and other shit that I guess was supposed to make me feel better. But all it did was piss me off. Why does "god's plan" have to include such brutality? Why couldn't he just call her home some other way? Meanwhile, the guy who did all of it has conveniently found god now, and has been saved. So according to most of what I've ever heard about it, he gets to go to heaven because he has been saved. Meanwhile, I have lived a good life and never done anything like that, while doing a lot of good for others. But me? I'm getting cast into the fiery lakes of hell because I didn't say the secret password. That is really the best system an all powerful being could come up with?

Then you have people who like to ascribe positive outcomes to god, and conveniently look the other way when something bad happens. God fixed my brother in law's back a few years back (according to him) but lets kids die of cancer all the time. Someone gets in a terrible accident and almost dies, but if they survive someone will say "god was looking out for him." WHAT? If god was looking out for him, why would he let the terrible accident happen in the first place? Oh yeah "god works in mysterious ways."

And then we have prayer. If god is all powerful and all knowing, and his plan involves killing people with cancer, who are humans to try to talk him out of it with prayers? Seems kind of counter intuitive to surrendering to a higher power. But of course if someone gets better it's because of prayers and if they die it's god's will.

Im sorry you had to go through that. My brother died of AIDS. so i got to watch him die a brutal death. My Dad melted of Cancer right in front of me. I simply cant respond to you as you've already stated its bullshit. Seriously doubt my theories on the matter will have any impact on you.

[Savage Lizard]

Im sorry you had to go through that. My brother died of AIDS. so i got to watch him die a brutal death. My Dad melted of Cancer right in front of me. I simply cant respond to you as you've already stated its bullshit. Seriously doubt my theories on the matter will have any impact on you.

Just so the record is straight, I did not say it's bullshit (I have no way of knowing). I said it "all just sounds like bullshit to me." Key phrases "SOUNDS LIKE" and "TO ME."

[Fleet]

Just so the record is straight, I did not say it's bullshit (I have no way of knowing). I said it "all just sounds like bullshit to me."

Im sorry i got that part wrong. My first thought was..Rob has suffered an immense traumatic event involving his mother...and still feeling anger is trying to take my experience of peace away from me. Forgive me for misinterpreting.

I want you know i know about your story with your mom. And it brings me great sorrow and empathy for you as a friend. I wish i could take that from you and i wish that God would reveal himself to you and give you some Answers.

But remember your talking with a man who judging by you and many others here has some way out there beliefs. The very fact i believe in God borderline labels me crazy by many non-believers.

I believe in Evil Rob. Because i used to be it. If you only knew of my personal history and the things ive done. AT one time i was filled with darkness. Hated God and hated people. Ive lived both sides.

Even in the mouth of madness and in a world filled with so much violence and evil...i believe in an equal amount of good and light. As a Christian i believe in Spiritual warfare. That right now as a type this i am surrounded by angels and demons. Fighting for lives. Convincing people to do evil and vice versa. I cant call myself a believer and think otherwise. I dont blame God for evil. I blame the one who hates him. ANd wants people not to see the light. Its a war thats talked about all throughout the Bible.

A Christian cant just claim to know God and deny the existance of Satan. The reason i feel so strongly about the existence of a loving God....is because i once worshiped the other side. And as a result my actions were evil.

If we lived in a perfect world where no bad ever happened. And everyone lived happily ever after and never died. There would never be any need for a Father. A creator. Thats just my core belief.

I hope you understand im just sharing my experience strength and hope. I don't wish to debate the existence of God. I simply want to love him without the persecution from others.

If you ever need me for anything you just ask. My heart goes out to you. Nobody should ever have to experience the darkness like you have.

I only think the Pastor said the things he did was because of his own conviction that your mother truly is in paradise and while she suffered...her life can live on in the love of her children. But ultimately i believe he was trying to instill hope that you and your family did not see your mother for the last time. That you will all be together again.

Peace man.

[Mister Hoarse]

I don't claim belief in any religion, nor an I close minded towards it.
I do believe it helps far too many people to be condemned or dismissed.
This forum, and even this thread can be a place of love or hate.
I have always felt the love here.
Peace.

[Fleet]

I dont love you Hoarse. I fucking love you.

[RobH]

Well you have a point Rob...but i personally wont have any part of a religion debate. But if the forum wants to discuss it i guess its up to you all. I would hope if it gets bad that you all can moderate it and let me know if it needs my attention.

Sounds extremely fair and reasonable to me.

Cheers,