And With The 5th Pick Of The NFL Draft Chargers Select....Discussion

[Boltjolt]

Pipkins gets more crap than other OL for several reasons. If you go through each game, judging players on what they do, every OL we had was making a fair number of mistakes. Slater somewhat less, but Johnson, Sayler and Clapp were all bad this year.

1). He has a history of making mistakes. Players develop at their own pace. Once a player develops to a point, you have to let those mistakes go and just evaluate them on the ones they are making. However, whoever plays RT for the Chargers seems to get much more crap than anyone else.

2). RT is much more visible than interior OL. That doesn't mean they are all bigger mistakes than the OG and C, who were just fucking awful this year, weren't catastrophic. Typically, when the post-game or game-day threads go on about stuff, the emphasis is on OT missing a block because they can see the pass rusher coming, yet a 3rd or 4th down run where the middle of the OL collapses isn't commented on much, if at all. However, all are major factors for a team that is losing close games.

3). The expectation seems to be that OT cannot make any mistakes concerning allowing pressure on the QB. However, there is a severe shortage of good OT, and could/can we afford two $20-25 M a year OT? To some degree, everyone is just going to have to get used to the idea that the RT is not going to be as good as Slater, who despite the down year is just not as good. Pipkins is the 16th highest-paid RT in terms of average per year. That makes him halfway through the pay scale. In an effective sense, because he is a year into his deal, he is in the bottom half. He is somewhat expensive for a swing OT, but I think most members of this board are not aware of how much OL, or at least that the only swing OT that are really worth what they are paid are the ones still on their rookie deals,or have pretty big warts (injury history, age ...).

4). Sayler got a lot of help from Herbert last season. A lot of times when Salyer got beat last season at OT, Herbert was getting rid of the ball quickly. A lot of the sacks Pipkins gives up, Herbert is holding the ball. I don't disagree that he should be allowed to compete and possibly win the OT job, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that he would win. Pipkins is a better pass blocker overall, and they both suck run blocking (pick any season to compare for either).

IThe argument that a RB has to break a tackle in the backfield is nonsense. Running plays are supposed to give the RB a chance to get going. Zone runs give the RB a "landmark" where they have to make their 1st cut/decision about where to go. If they can't get to that landmark, it's the OL fault. Football is a team sport, the OL have to do their job and we don't have any OL who were even average this season. Yes, there will be some plays that a RB will get hit in the backfield, we can't prevent all running plays from being blown up, but for us it is the norm, and that is unacceptable. All our OL are part of the problem, as well as our TE and WR.

Our RB are going down easily because they aren't up to speed. I also think that to some degree, the RB are trying to minimize the loss. You go down, because if you fight too hard, and deliberately give up yardage to keep fighting, the forward progress gets reset further back (Roundtree used to do that a good bit). If the defenders are already in the backfield most of the time, we have already lost and you are splitting hairs. Try watching the Ravens OL, or the Lions running games. Both show how it should be done.

I am not sure that I agree with (not) taking Bowers makes that much sense. We do have needs at WR and OT, but the way Bowers can block at the point of attack, pull and lead, or just play like a classic FB, adds something that we really need. Kincaid was taken with the 25th pick and he is not nearly as good as Bowers, although he may have some more upside as a receiver. Looking at next years prospects there are good WR in every draft now. Same with some OL. TE, only this draft and last season's draft have the number of top prospects. Call it a by-product of Covid. But TE are hard to develop and were never all that common, even when many college teams played pro-style offenses. Today, with everyone playing spread, it has been a lot less likely lately. The draft is about adding good players who build our team. We have to get a good TE(s) at some point.

Thank you!

Pip hasnt been great but ive said the interior OL was terrrible. Salyer hasnt been as good at RG as he was at LT. Clapp was dismal, and Zion didnt have a great season. We cant run in the middle and the pressure from the middle for Herbert was worse. Its why im a big fan of Cooper Beebe over a RT...though i wouldnt rule a RT out either. Beebe can play all over.

TE is a must! I love Nabers and Odunze but the Packers have 4 good recievers and NONE of them are first round picks. I get first round TEs arent plentiful in the league as top TEs but Bowers is a top prospect and i dont want to say generational but hid talent dont come around that often there and imo a better prospect than Pitts was. Pits was a tweener and a big WR more than a complete TE and he isnt that great a blocker.

There are good recievers in this draft we can get round 2, 3 or 4. Love Franklin though his catch % can be better.Worthy, Corley , Rice, Legette, Roman Wilson, McConkey, McMilin, Cowing....We can stil get a good one paired with Keenan, Palmer and QJ....who im sure will develope.

[21&500]

On board with Beebe too
Bowers and Beebe brings us options through A and B Gap.
Bowsers particularly will be featured with a creative OC.
Intangibles too, instant leader.
We can find explosive weapons at WR on day 3 that perhaps need polishing, but it turns out the best athletes play WR now so they're not hard to find.

I Still am comfortable with a trade down with plan B being OL or CB if Bowers is off the board, but play A is Bowers imho.
And only trade down if we get more compensation that what a trade chart suggests.

[Steve]

Thank you!

Pip hasnt been great but ive said the interior OL was terrrible. Salyer hasnt been as good at RG as he was at LT. Clapp was dismal, and Zion didnt have a great season. We cant run in the middle and the pressure from the middle for Herbert was worse. Its why im a big fan of Cooper Beebe over a RT...though i wouldnt rule a RT out either. Beebe can play all over.

TE is a must! I love Nabers and Odunze but the Packers have 4 good recievers and NONE of them are first round picks. I get first round TEs arent plentiful in the league as top TEs but Bowers is a top prospect and i dont want to say generational but hid talent dont come around that often there and imo a better prospect than Pitts was. Pits was a tweener and a big WR more than a complete TE and he isnt that great a blocker.

There are good recievers in this draft we can get round 2, 3 or 4. Love Franklin though his catch % can be better.Worthy, Corley , Rice, Legette, Roman Wilson, McConkey, McMilin, Cowing....We can stil get a good one paired with Keenan, Palmer and QJ....who im sure will develope.

The big thing is we aren't going to fill all of our long-term needs or wishes in this draft.

As far as the OL goes, Cooper Beebe would be a nice fit. I am not sure I know where he fits best, but he is the kind of player who can probably play RT, LG, RG and maybe C in a pinch. He is a hard player not to like. For a team like us, he is the kind of player who might be ideal, since you can put everyone else in a more natural position, and then he could play wherever else you need him.

Bowers is a good blocker and a great receiver. He can play FB because of his ability to be a lead blocker. He can line up split out as a receiving TE, and inline TE, put him in motion .. he can do it all. Bowers is a good receiver who can line up all over and challenge secondaries. Traditional NFL defenses cover TE with LB. If a TE or Hback can beat LB coverage, they force defenses to use a S or NCB on them. If they can use their size well enough to beat those guys, now DC have to come up with ways to cover them that make alter the structure of the D. Their usual rules don't work, so you have to learn new coverages and adjustments and learn them for the week, which leads to a lot of breakdowns in coverage. If that same guy can block like a regular TE (not be just a receiver type), defenses are forced to make uncomfortable personnel group choices as uncomfortable coverage choices as well.

I could live with Kincaid or Pitts type of TE. We need offensive weapons, and they fit that, even if they have limitations as blockers. But when a TE has abilities beyond just receiving or just blocking, then it makes them even more valuable.

At some point soon, we are going to have to address WR with a quality pick. Allen is nearing the end, whether we keep him for 1 more year, extend him or not. I hope QJ develops but I am not sure he will develop into a pure #1 WR, and even if he does, Herbert needs at least one #2/#3 WR type who can beat single coverage and abuse any D that is doubling Bowers and QJ. Remember the days when we had Gates and Floyd both playing very well ... with no one around them... teams would double them, leave every other receiver singled, and Rivers kept running out of options. We need 3 good receiving options (maybe more).

[Maniaque 6]

I know Justin need protection.
Maybe 2nd rounder can fill it.
In the 1st, we could have the chance to have a remake of ...

Fouts - Winslow or
Rivers - Gates

[Go Chargers go]

I think Hunter Henry is a FA and was always a great blocker…injuries were his downfall. Could be great to pair with Bowers if selected.

[wu-dai clan]

Post after post with a man crush on Bowers.
That makes you blind, Sir.
Marvel at what this man can do.
But does his acquisition lead to winning football ?

In other news, receiving TEs
Donald Parham and Stone Smartt
are under contract and project to improve.
We have a screaming need for an In-Line blocking TE,
easily obtainable in the middle or late rounds.

How much better would our offense be,
and how much healthier and effective would Herbert be
if he simply had more time to throw ?
You all know that the weapons we already have
would be much more productive.

[CanadianBoltFan]

Post after post with a man crush on Bowers.
That makes you blind, Sir.
Marvel at what this man can do.
But does his acquisition lead to winning football ?

In other news, receiving TEs
Donald Parham and Stone Smartt
are under contract and project to improve.
We have a screaming need for an In-Line blocking TE,
easily obtainable in the middle or late rounds.

How much better would our offense be,
and how much healthier and effective would Herbert be
if he simply had more time to throw ?
You all know that the weapons we already have
would be much more productive.

Please let go of our current TE group. It is mediocre at best, and not one of them can block. The Chargers TE position needs a complete overhaul and hopefully new management will get right on that.

Tonight we watched Kincaid and Kelce to see whats possible. We are in position to draft the best TE prospect probably ever, who is a good blocker and a complete baller who would help change the culture of this team. Bowers is good enough to be used in multiple ways and be the top weapon in this offense..

If they go another direction in this draft in the first, they still need to draft a TE and look at FA. The current group just isnt good enough.Not sure why you would have any faith in Parham doing anything at this point.

[BigBad]

The Bills failure last night should prove to EVERYONE here that Nabors must be the pick.

Allen was not sacked and they ran the ball for 180 yards. They lacked explosive playmakers. Gabe Davis was out and Diggs is 30 and not the same.

DRAFT EXPLOSIVENESS!!!!

But maybe having a Kelce type in Bowers opens things up for average WRs...
LOL who knows.

[Steve]

Parham has been a decent player in his time with the Chargers. But he has never developed the consistency needed to be a full-time player. I think he can be a 3rd TE, who gets some playing time, and can be a weapon on the goalline. But he is coming off his worst season,so can he continue to improve??????? Parham has a long way to go to turn into a #1 TE. Smart flashes some ability, sure, but it seems optimistic to think he can develop into a bonafide starter.

Since NFL teams often carry 4 TE, bring Smart back. He is cheap. Let him compete for a roster spot. But counting on him to be anything more than a depth guy is a bit optimistic. He might still develop into a backup TE. But he is not a difference-maker.

We need a real starting TE. NFL teams spend most of their time with at least 1 TE on the field. The Lombardi and Moore offenses we have played the last 3 seasons, we didn't have a #1 TE, and it showed. Both have struggled badly because we keep putting guys out there who defenses don't have to worry about. When Cook started strong, it gave defenses problems, and he wasn't all that great (adequate, but not outstanding). As Cook faded, our offense hasn't been the same We have to get a TE who defenses can't choose to ignore. A stop-gap guy would be a big help, but we have a chance to do more than that.

Bowers is the best TE in this draft class, but there are a few others who look pretty good. We need help in a lot of areas, so I get not drafting high now for TE now, but next season's draft class lacks the depth that this year does, so it is just going to get harder to fill that spot.

As has been mentioned, there are a lot of big, fast X-receiver types. We just drafted the one like that last year in QJ. There are some pretty good OT prospects at the top of the draft, although our biggest needs are at interior OL, both because Pipkins is our 2nd best OL, and Salyer has played much better at OT than OG. But Linsley is done, Salyer didn't play well at OG, Zion was less effective this year than last.

[Steve]

The Bills failure last night should prove to EVERYONE here that Nabors must be the pick.

Allen was not sacked and they ran the ball for 180 yards. They lacked explosive playmakers. Gabe Davis was out and Diggs is 30 and not the same.

DRAFT EXPLOSIVENESS!!!!

But maybe having a Kelce type in Bowers opens things up for average WRs...
LOL who knows.

We need both. Allen makes some plays downfield, but he is not that explosive style of player, and he is getting older. We need a TE to attack the middle of the field. We also need to get some playmakers to attack downfield. The Bills really missed Gabe Davis last night. Once an offense can attack downfield, they need the players at TE and RB who can use the space created to make plays underneath. And time for the QB to go through his progression (see Allen missing an open WR in the end zone on 3rd down when he got knocked off his mark by a rushing Chris Jones knocking the OT back into Allen).

The flip side is that Buffalo also could have used some help stopping Kelce. Buffalo did OK given the circumstances, but we can't cover Kelce to save our lives. Or anyone else for that matter.

[Bolt4Knob]

Please let go of our current TE group. It is mediocre at best, and not one of them can block. The Chargers TE position needs a complete overhaul and hopefully new management will get right on that.

Tonight we watched Kincaid and Kelce to see whats possible. We are in position to draft the best TE prospect probably ever, who is a good blocker and a complete baller who would help change the culture of this team. Bowers is good enough to be used in multiple ways and be the top weapon in this offense..

If they go another direction in this draft in the first, they still need to draft a TE and look at FA. The current group just isnt good enough.Not sure why you would have any faith in Parham doing anything at this point.

Totally agree. Why do people want Everett back and Parham back. Everett ran hard with the ball, no doubt - maybe try him at RB. But the blocking was terrible. Parham didn't block, gets hurt and dropped too many passes. In fact, I am releasing Parham by the start of the league year. Not for cap reasons - just because he is not the right fit

As for the 5th pick - I still would probably prefer to trade back but if at 5 - taking Bowers over the WRs.

[Chargers8491]

Post after post with a man crush on Bowers.
That makes you blind, Sir.
Marvel at what this man can do.
But does his acquisition lead to winning football ?

In other news, receiving TEs
Donald Parham and Stone Smartt
are under contract and project to improve.
We have a screaming need for an In-Line blocking TE,
easily obtainable in the middle or late rounds.

How much better would our offense be,
and how much healthier and effective would Herbert be
if he simply had more time to throw ?
You all know that the weapons we already have
would be much more productive.

How many times have we seen a TE take over a game? If they are doubled teamed the wrs are left open, if they aren't doubled teamed they wreak havoc in the secondary. If you can one that blocks that is the cherry on top. We don't have a TE that even comes close to that and we need one biggly.